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Old 12-25-2013, 06:48 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 2,158,278 times
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The smartest people in the Midwest generally move out of the Midwest. A top-tier Midwest student will probably end up on Wall Street or Silicon Valley or Hollywood moreso than in some Midwest corporate jobs.

If you really want to see the cream of the Midwest crop, go to NYC, DC, Bay Area, or Southern California. My old neighborhood in Orange County was like half from the Midwest, and everyone was very successful.

The rest are in Chicago, or to a lesser extent, in university towns like Madison and Ann Arbor.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:53 PM
 
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The smartest people go some where warmer.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:18 AM
 
3,118 posts, read 4,898,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiVegas View Post
The smartest people in the Midwest generally move out of the Midwest. A top-tier Midwest student will probably end up on Wall Street or Silicon Valley or Hollywood moreso than in some Midwest corporate jobs.

If you really want to see the cream of the Midwest crop, go to NYC, DC, Bay Area, or Southern California. My old neighborhood in Orange County was like half from the Midwest, and everyone was very successful.

The rest are in Chicago, or to a lesser extent, in university towns like Madison and Ann Arbor.
That's not true. If you work in finance, chicago is next to NYC for the best jobs, but it has a significantly lower cost if living. Additionally, chicago has more to offer as a city than the cities you mentioned, and it allows people to remain closer to family and friends. As another poster posted, NW and UofC is split between graduates staying in chi and moving to the east coast. You can't say they generally leave the Midwest because that isn't true if it's 50/50.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:38 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 2,158,278 times
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Originally Posted by jman07 View Post
That's not true.
If you work in finance, chicago is next to NYC for the best jobs, but it has a significantly lower cost if living.
This is probably true, but it doesn't matter. That's like saying "Rockford is the second city in Illinois, therefore Rockford is a similar draw as Chicago, the first city". NYC absolutely dominates in finance and has all the good investment banking, private equity and hedge fund jobs, and #2 is closer to #10 than to #1 in terms of finance jobs. There are no major banks or especially investment banks HQ in Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman07 View Post
Additionally, chicago has more to offer as a city than the cities you mentioned, and it allows people to remain closer to family and friends. As another poster posted, NW and UofC is split between graduates staying in chi and moving to the east coast. You can't say they generally leave the Midwest because that isn't true if it's 50/50.
You have to be kidding me. First, it isn't 50/50; there are more UofC grads going to the coasts than staying in Chicago. And even 50/50 would not be a good ratio of keeping grads. Second, the UofC is in Chicago, but we are talking about the Midwest generally. If Chicago isn't keeping its best and brightest attending schools 5 miles from the Loop, why would you assume that students 500 miles from the Loop would mostly send their best and brightest to Chicago?

Compare UofC and Northwestern to Columbia and NYU. With UofC and Northwestern, most leave the Midwest for the coasts, for Columbia and NYU, most stay in NYC area. In fact the NYC area is easily #1 for all the Ivy League schools, by far. Same goes if you compare UofC and Northwestern to UCLA or USC, or to Stanford and UC Berkeley. Those CA schools tend to keep their grads in the area.

There will always automatically be a big chunk of alums living in the state where a school is located. So, for example, for University of Michigan, despite Detroit's problems, and the overall state's problems, there are more Michigan alums in Metro Detroit than in any other metro. Yet the #2 metro is NYC, not Chicago, even though NYC is much farther from Ann Arbor than Chicago.

The "Chicago has more to offer as a city" is your opinion, not fact. I would definitely argue that NYC, DC, LA and SF have more to offer in terms of job opportunities and things to do. Boston is probably equal to Chicago, though has much lower unemployment and far more tech/new economy jobs.

Chicago is an awesome city, and absolutely dominates the Midwest, and gets a huge number of Midwest grads, including the biggest chunk of Big 10 grads (and probably by far) but I believe the bulk of elite students in the Midwest leave the area, per the university stats. Midwest economy is generally weaker and less opportunity.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: mid-Michigan
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Even with south-side depopulation, Chicago will never be the next Detroit.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,322 posts, read 21,459,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiVegas View Post
The smartest people in the Midwest generally move out of the Midwest. A top-tier Midwest student will probably end up on Wall Street or Silicon Valley or Hollywood moreso than in some Midwest corporate jobs.
I'd say this happens between 50-67% of the time, but not 100% of the time in the midwest. A lot of the small town ones kind of stay close to home too surprisingly because they're actually afraid of the world, no joke. I have a few stories about that since I went to college in the state of Iowa. One guy I graduated with in particular was ridiculously smart - high, high genius level and he turned everyone in the bay, Seattle, NYC, and Boston down because he wanted to stay close to home. He ended up working for some company in Des Moines (who actually does a lot of business internationally, but still not like an Intel, Google, etc).

Also in college, I did research with a few finance professors, one who came to the school from NYC after having worked for Goldman Sachs. She was still in contact with them and the Chicago office told her they'd hire a few of her students. None of them wanted to do it because even Chicago was "too far from home." Ridiculous..

So yes, there's still people like that in the midwest, unfortunately.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:11 AM
 
8,279 posts, read 10,733,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I'd say this happens between 50-67% of the time, but not 100% of the time in the midwest. A lot of the small town ones kind of stay close to home too surprisingly because they're actually afraid of the world, no joke. I have a few stories about that since I went to college in the state of Iowa. One guy I graduated with in particular was ridiculously smart - high, high genius level and he turned everyone in the bay, Seattle, NYC, and Boston down because he wanted to stay close to home. He ended up working for some company in Des Moines (who actually does a lot of business internationally, but still not like an Intel, Google, etc).

Also in college, I did research with a few finance professors, one who came to the school from NYC after having worked for Goldman Sachs. She was still in contact with them and the Chicago office told her they'd hire a few of her students. None of them wanted to do it because even Chicago was "too far from home." Ridiculous..

So yes, there's still people like that in the midwest, unfortunately.
There are people like that in the Northeast, too--everywhere really..

Outside of the universities and medical center, Boston can be pretty provincial..
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,390 posts, read 26,479,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jman07 View Post
That's not true. If you work in finance, chicago is next to NYC for the best jobs, but it has a significantly lower cost if living. Additionally, chicago has more to offer as a city than the cities you mentioned, and it allows people to remain closer to family and friends. As another poster posted, NW and UofC is split between graduates staying in chi and moving to the east coast. You can't say they generally leave the Midwest because that isn't true if it's 50/50.
My numbers actually reflect that more people go elsewhere than Chicago, not 50/50. More people leave than stay at the more elite institutions such as UChicago, Michigan (top public ivy in area) and Northwestern. My point was even the institutions IN Chicago, people are not staying. I went to Northwestern myself and I would definitely say most people had plans to leave. Chicago indeed gets better graduates than other cities in the Midwest, getting the smartest people from the Midwest isn't exactly accurate either. The coastal markets are generally the industry leaders, esp NYC/DC/SF/LA, and that applies to all regions, it's just where the best and highest paying/prestigious jobs are...again, in general.
I think Philly/Boston/Chicago are the next tier of best jobs centers for these type of jobs though.

Last edited by grapico; 12-26-2013 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:06 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 11,904,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiVegas View Post
This is probably true, but it doesn't matter. That's like saying "Rockford is the second city in Illinois, therefore Rockford is a similar draw as Chicago, the first city". NYC absolutely dominates in finance and has all the good investment banking, private equity and hedge fund jobs, and #2 is closer to #10 than to #1 in terms of finance jobs. There are no major banks or especially investment banks HQ in Chicago.


You have to be kidding me. First, it isn't 50/50; there are more UofC grads going to the coasts than staying in Chicago. And even 50/50 would not be a good ratio of keeping grads. Second, the UofC is in Chicago, but we are talking about the Midwest generally. If Chicago isn't keeping its best and brightest attending schools 5 miles from the Loop, why would you assume that students 500 miles from the Loop would mostly send their best and brightest to Chicago?

Compare UofC and Northwestern to Columbia and NYU. With UofC and Northwestern, most leave the Midwest for the coasts, for Columbia and NYU, most stay in NYC area. In fact the NYC area is easily #1 for all the Ivy League schools, by far. Same goes if you compare UofC and Northwestern to UCLA or USC, or to Stanford and UC Berkeley. Those CA schools tend to keep their grads in the area.

There will always automatically be a big chunk of alums living in the state where a school is located. So, for example, for University of Michigan, despite Detroit's problems, and the overall state's problems, there are more Michigan alums in Metro Detroit than in any other metro. Yet the #2 metro is NYC, not Chicago, even though NYC is much farther from Ann Arbor than Chicago.

The "Chicago has more to offer as a city" is your opinion, not fact. I would definitely argue that NYC, DC, LA and SF have more to offer in terms of job opportunities and things to do. Boston is probably equal to Chicago, though has much lower unemployment and far more tech/new economy jobs.

Chicago is an awesome city, and absolutely dominates the Midwest, and gets a huge number of Midwest grads, including the biggest chunk of Big 10 grads (and probably by far) but I believe the bulk of elite students in the Midwest leave the area, per the university stats. Midwest economy is generally weaker and less opportunity.
Good overall post I largely agree with, in the broad sense that yeah, it is a subjective and biased statement to say that Chicago has "more to offer as a city than LA, SF, and DC", and its ridiculous to say this as some kind of fact. I can see why people might prefer Chicago to the other three, as all three have different qualities, but to say in some absolute way that it has more to offer is ignorant. As a concentrated urban core Chicago may have more to offer than any concentrated urban core of LA, but when comparing the whole city and "suburbs" that are either surrounded by or adjacent, theres no contest.

DC and San Fran are certainly a lot smaller than Chicago proper, but CSA they are comparable, and Chicago is more like San Fran and Oakland pushed together, or even DC and Baltimore pushed together, removing the suburbs, open space, or water in between.

I will say that as much as I love LA, I will say that USC and UCLA are not comparable to Northwestern and U of C, in terms of rigor, difficulty of getting accepted, having the best and brightest. UCLA is certainly one of the top public universities in the country. "below" UC Berkeley and about on par with U of M.

USC is actually one of the more easier to get in, (both in terms of grades, and ability to get financial aid, etc.) of private schools. Perhaps on par with Loyola or DePaul in Chicago maybe, but really can't say for sure. I will also say that USC probably has more grads that stay in greater LA than UCLA, because USC specializes in film, music industry, and other entertainment related fields.

LAs most "only the best and brightest" university is probably Caltech.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:11 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,613 posts, read 7,374,903 times
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Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
There are people like that in the Northeast, too--everywhere really..

Outside of the universities and medical center, Boston can be pretty provincial..
Even the universities can be surprisingly provincial in Boston.
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