Most Violent Weekend in Chicago (law, versus, statistics)

[Irishtom29]

Hell, now that the upper orders think it's OK to live together unmarried and have bastard children just how do you convince the lower orders they shouldn't do the same? The upper classes in this country set a lousy example; little stoicism, sacrifice or restraint. Little nobility of spirit.

[Diws]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Hell, now that the upper orders think it's OK to live together unmarried and have bastard children just how do you convince the lower orders they shouldn't do the same? The upper classes in this country set a lousy example; little stoicism, sacrifice or restraint. Little nobility of spirit.

Exactly - but they can afford to live that way. The underclass has no such luxury; they would be better off emulating the middle class, who are far less visible in the popular culture. The elites do not actually live this irresponsible way as much as it seems, but when they do, it is quite visible. Popular culture tends evince a moral corrective, from the melodrama of the early 20th century to the pro-nuclear family entertainment of the '50's. As quaint as these might seem now, they were superior to the crass nonjugementalism of today. Until the more successful members of our society have the confidence to actually preach what they practice, I don't see a lot of hope for a healthy aspirational narrative for the underclass.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by lenniel

But, since Memphis asked, it's the culture of it being OK to have children when you're a teen. That it's OK not to get an education. It's the culture that grammy or aunty will help raise the kids you've had with zero intention of marrying the dad(s). Or that the government is always there to help. It's the culture of black men only wanting to have sex but not the responsibility of marriage/fatherhood.
That, IMHO, is one of the roots of the problem. Kids without a strong male role model (not a rapper or professional athlete) are going to find more ways of getting in trouble than kids not in that situation. But it's exacerbated when 80% of the kids are in that situation.
Again, just my social science commentary.

You are bring up a valid point. I come from a very conservative family and out of wedlock births is not acceptable.

People like me have a tenancy to separate our selves from the lower income blacks. Is it right? No. But it's a reality. We associate our selves with like minded people. Whites and other races do the same. Try telling a successful Black family that they should relocate to ghettoville they will look at you like your crazy.

What is the answer, I don't know.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

You are bring up a valid point. I come from a very conservative family and out of wedlock births is not acceptable.

People like me have a tenancy to separate our selves from the lower income blacks. Is it right? No. But it's a reality. We associate our selves with like minded people. Whites and other races do the same. Try telling a successful Black family that they should relocate to ghettoville they will look at you like your crazy.

What is the answer, I don't know.

Again, I'm referring to a specific segment of the population, just like I would be with the white trash meth head segment.
I know lots of professional, well educated, nuclear black families who look at the same situation and just shake their head. But, the reality is, if you look at most of the poor, violent, gang ridden communities, regardless of geography, this seems to be the common denominator in all these situations. Giving out free condoms at the local clinic aint the solution.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

You are bring up a valid point. I come from a very conservative family and out of wedlock births is not acceptable.

People like me have a tenancy to separate our selves from the lower income blacks. Is it right? No. But it's a reality. We associate our selves with like minded people. Whites and other races do the same. Try telling a successful Black family that they should relocate to ghettoville they will look at you like your crazy.

What is the answer, I don't know.

Totally understandable, but the leaders (generally self-appointed, the black versions of your bible thumping types in the South, Rush Limbaughs, etc) aren't separating them from you.

You need about a million folks like yourself to go out and publicly acknowledge the Bill Cosbys when they put themselves out on a limb, the same way any self-respecting Irish American is quick to call out the Bill O'Reilly types as the bigoted morons that they are.

White isn't a race, it's the establishment. Greeks, Jews and other swarthy Europeans didn't get admittance into that "club" for decades, but it is open to all willing to put capitalism on a pedestal and to forget where the came from.

[CityLife!]

I watch WGN news every morning and night. To be honest, and I feel bad for saying this, but I am so used to them announcing news about victims of gun violence every day here in Chicago. Although most of the victims are gang members, it's still sad.
WGN just announced this morning there are so far 200 homicides. I'd say so far we aren't that far from the track of last year. At a total of 2012 homicides, there were around 532 (correct me if I am wrong please).

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by CityLife!

I watch WGN news every morning and night. To be honest, and I feel bad for saying this, but I am so used to them announcing news about victims of gun violence every day here in Chicago. Although most of the victims are gang members, it's still sad.
WGN just announced this morning there are so far 200 homicides. I'd say so far we aren't that far from the track of last year. At a total of 2012 homicides, there were around 532 (correct me if I am wrong please).

Relax, it still isn't as bad as Vietnam and it's better than 20 years ago. It's all good. Just a few tweaks and we'll be all set here ;-) (This is sarcasm for those suburbanites about to jump on me and to the City people in the fashionably gritty areas, I've acknowledged the improvement).

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Hell, now that the upper orders think it's OK to live together unmarried and have bastard children just how do you convince the lower orders they shouldn't do the same? The upper classes in this country set a lousy example; little stoicism, sacrifice or restraint. Little nobility of spirit.

By eliminating the social programs that make such behavior possible.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by CityLife!

I watch WGN news every morning and night. To be honest, and I feel bad for saying this, but I am so used to them announcing news about victims of gun violence every day here in Chicago. Although most of the victims are gang members, it's still sad.
WGN just announced this morning there are so far 200 homicides. I'd say so far we aren't that far from the track of last year. At a total of 2012 homicides, there were around 532 (correct me if I am wrong please).

Actually we are far off track from last year. If you have been following the news more closely, you'd know that at least as of a few weeks ago, we had the lowest total of homicides to date since the early 60s.

As of 7/7/2013, there have been 203 homicdes. YTD for 2012 was 275. That means there's been 72 less homicides this year through that date versus last year. That is a 26.2% decrease.

Unfortunately, until this weekend, we were ahead of 2011's pace but now are slightly behind it

Through 7/7:
2013: 203 homicides
2012 :275
2011: 200
2010: 244
2009: 224
2008: 253
2007: 209
2006: 221
2005: 220
2004: 234
2003: 309
2002: 297

[jonnynonos]

Isn't parsing these numbers trying to sculpt them into some kind of good news kind of pathetic?

The fact is certain neighborhoods of this city are f**kin' war zones, just ask the 5 and 7 year old who were gunned down over the fourth.

Any attempt to say "It's not really that bad" is fairly feeble at this point IMO.

While the truly spectacular violence is limited to a handful of neighborhoods, it is still part of the city.

I've heard that a lot of the reason the homicide rate went down was actually more attributable to emergency room technology advances over the last 20 years.

That may not be true but it would be interesting to see the SHOOTING statstics.