Great quote from the fast food workers strike in Chicago (Peoria: sales, apartment)

[yoyoniner]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Yoyiner, the bottom line is that real wages haven't gone up in decades, unemployment is through the roof, and the American worker is being squeezed at both ends, through off shoring as well as the decimation of blue collar jobs.

Agreed. I believe it will get worse now, too, that there are now not just financial but also government incentives to keep doing this.

Do you understand that if 10 million people became software engineers that there would no longer be a software engineer shortage?

I think any human would understand that. I never called for 10 million software engineers, I just said there is a demand for them now and wages are offered with their supply accordingly.

You are right: It is a good idea for someone working at McDonald's to get a technical degree.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with that.

However, that is not a solution to the overal apparently dismal future for the American rank and file or middle class, which in some of our minds is what made this country great.

It is a solution. It may not be THE solution but I never argued as such. Certainly education is PART of the solution. There is a literal shortage of labor in this country in the fields I discussed and a lot of jobs available in those practices. And those are good paying jobs.

I agree with your post overall.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by yoyoniner

He may have been referring to the fact that he was a drug dealer, if you read his twitter.

There is NO evidence that Trayvon was a drug dealer. He certainly used, but the amount in his blood did not even come up to having used on the day of his death.

Scientist: Trayvon Martin's Marijuana Use Had Nothing to Do with the Night He Died | Alternet

[yoyoniner]

Originally Posted by nana053

There is NO evidence that Trayvon was a drug dealer. He certainly used, but the amount in his blood did not even come up to having used on the day of his death.

Scientist: Trayvon Martin's Marijuana Use Had Nothing to Do with the Night He Died | Alternet

I wasn't talking about marijuana, I was talking about codeine. On his twitter feed there is a conversation with him trying to buy a large batch of codeine to "make some more." You are right maybe he wasn't dealing it he was just making it for himself. Didn't mean he deserved to be killed either but I was merely responding to the other poster because I think you misread his intention.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by yoyoniner

Agreed. Part of this has to do with our labor expenses and bureaucracy here. Hence why when BMW, Porsche and Hyundai opened their new plants the last few years they opened them in South Carolina and Georgia, and not Michigan and Illinois.

Interesting that German businessmen look at the American south the way American businessmen look at Mexico and China, as a source of cheap and compliant labor.

[nana053]

Someone asked about other fast food jobs paying better. Here's one link. The chains though are mostly local as of the moment.

Fast-Food Restaurant Pays $12 An Hour To 'Culinarians' - Careers Articles

Also note that McDonald's pays better in Russia than it does in the US now.

McDonald’s wages are rising fastest in Russia, and other facts about fast food pay

Overseas, fast food wages are rising faster relative to the food they sell. One of the more novel studies of fast food wages comes from Princeton’s Orley Ashenfelter, who published a National Bureau of Economic Research paper comparing the real wages of McDonald’s workers with the price of a Big Mac. By his calculations, U.S. McDonald’s employees could buy the most Big Macs per hour of work of any region, but that ratio declined between 2007 and 2011 — while the ratio in Russia, China and Eastern Europe increased.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Interesting that German businessmen look at the American south the way American businessmen look at Mexico and China, as a source of cheap and compliant labor.

Yep.

[yoyoniner]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Interesting that German businessmen look at the American south the way American businessmen look at Mexico and China, as a source of cheap and compliant labor.

The American South's labor is not much cheaper than the Midwest, which averages only $2 more per hour for comparable union jobs (Closer Look at Union vs. Nonunion Workers’ Wages - Real Time Economics - WSJ). The cost of living in the South is also significantly lower in general (real estate, a gallon of gas, overall tax burden, etc.) which probably makes it a wash.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by yoyoniner

The American South's labor is not much cheaper than the Midwest, which averages only $2 more per hour for comparable union jobs (Closer Look at Union vs. Nonunion Workers’ Wages - Real Time Economics - WSJ). The cost of living in the South is also significantly lower in general (real estate, a gallon of gas, overall tax burden, etc.) which probably makes it a wash.

Note that those statistics don't put a dollar value on benefits which are generally much higher with union jobs. Note too that foreign car companies in The United States get much of their labor through temporary agencies with lower wages and benefits than for those who work directly for the company.

It's always better to get more money. That's why the best southern hands in the union building trades work up north as much as possible; a hand can work straight time out of a hall up here and even after living expenses make more dough than working OT at home. And put more in his pension too. Talent chases money.

I lived in Lexington Ky. for three years and the only things cheaper were housing and real estate taxes. My state taxes were higher than in Illinois. And housing is only cheaper because wages in the trades are much lower; good for some but not so good for carpenters and sparkies. A gallon of milk, groceries, a pair of shoes cost the same as here.

[yoyoniner]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

I lived in Lexington Ky. for three years and the only things cheaper were housing and real estate taxes.

Housing and real estate taxes---those are two pretty big expenses to be cheaper.

Nevertheless, let's look into it:

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

CNN Cost of Living Comparison

You would have to make $50,000 in Chicago to be equivalent to $40,000 in Lexington, according to CNN. That's 20%.

My state taxes were higher than in Illinois. And housing is only cheaper because wages in the trades are much lower; good for some but not so good for carpenters and sparkies. A gallon of milk, groceries, a pair of shoes cost the same as here.

State taxes in Kentucky are only a maximum of 1% higher (if you make over $75,000/year) - http://www.tax-brackets.org/kentuckytaxtable

Sales taxes are much lower, and real estate taxes are almost 1/3rd of Illinois's:

Illinois | Tax Foundation

Kentucky | Tax Foundation

[DubbleT]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

I was thinking more like get a promotion to assistant manager of McDonalds and make somewhere in the 25k range. Or get a better job like a secretary or receptionist and make 30k. Or go to a 2 year school and make 30k, 35k, 40k or more. All of these are within reach for anyone who currently works at McDonalds.

Anyone? Have you ever worked closely with some of these people? There are plenty "lifers" who simply don't have what it takes to hit the books, move up, or better themselves. Low skilled labor is all they will ever be capable of, no matter how hard they try.
What is the solution for those people? If you don't pay them a living wage you will still find yourself supporting them in some other way.