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Old 08-21-2013, 10:10 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,950,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
Lowering the bar for cool would be this buncha NIMBYs:

Chicago Tribune
Hardly Logan Square...
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
1,490 posts, read 2,663,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
If "feel" includes the fact that overall the area is the right distance from other spots in the path of development, has the right mix of "pioneer" type gentification as well as more affluent "second wave" efforts, won't canabalize other businesses in Lincoln Park / Lakeview, and does not suffer from some of the "scale" issues of too wide sections of streets in Uptown / Edgewater then I do agree that "feel" is certainly part of the appeal. The same sorts of visual issues make different parts of Chicago wholly unappealing to young people -- think of the uniformity of drab WW II era bungalows in Brighton Park or Dunning, the lack of transit options (and abundance of semi-suburban ranches...) in Forest Glen, heck even the overly "secured" feel of condos / townhouses of "Central Station" between Grant Park and Praire Ave Disrtict...

Of course there are PLENTY of other spots in Chicago where land is MUCH cheaper but they do not have the right mix of features that mitigates risk nor do they have the "scale" that still allows non-deep pocket developers to have a go at things.

While personally I think the pace of change in Logan Square is dangerously close to being a local bubble, and the current boom has all the warning signs of a "fad" instead of a more sustainable "trend" there are apparently enough others that feel differently. I can't really blame some of the business owners either -- it just makes sense to "get in while the gettins' good". I hope that folks that need a "plan B" have an exit strategy if / when the bloom is off the rose...

What are you going on about, do you even know where Logan Square is?
There is so little overlap, cannibalization isn't even a factor.

It's not like you're going to see frat boys in ball caps picking hipster chicks at the Whistler or fixies and mustaches at a Wrigleyville bar for a footbal game.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
1,490 posts, read 2,663,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Once towns like Skokie and Lincolnwood were THE place too...


Back in the "Gilded Era" places near todays Praire Ave Historic District were where Chicago's Barons made their homes.

There is nothing magic about short term success in either real estate or even a "hot" resturant, but even the best business people often close places -- Rich Melman Restaurant Habits What goes into those closed spaces is often a lot less ambitious place that often takes down the "hotness factor" many orders of magnitude. There is a Wildfire (which is a nice enough place, but there now eight of those in LEYE company as opposed to the "one and only" Eccentric back when River North & Oprah was so much hipper. Down the road when the fad fades for hip places in Logan Square or Wicker Park I suspect that there will be a progression of more "run of the mill" efforts ...
Yeah, when there was the mass exodous of people trying to leave the city.

Now, the younger kids want short commutes and don't even want a car.


Sure, it's 'short term.' So, Wicker Park will ride the bubble for 50 years or so. Long enough for me to buy a place, and sell it as a move on in life with different needs, desires and agendas.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:42 AM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,950,339 times
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Default Consider the reality ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rparz View Post
What are you going on about, do you even know where Logan Square is?
There is so little overlap, cannibalization isn't even a factor.

It's not like you're going to see frat boys in ball caps picking hipster chicks at the Whistler or fixies and mustaches at a Wrigleyville bar for a footbal game.
I damned well know Logan Square and the fact is that when it comes to commute the 20 minute or so ride on the Blue line to the Loop is not bad but neither is it so incredibly short that folks will never think about moving. In fact, one could argue that since a speedy Metra ride in from Oak Park on the UP-W or even LaGrange on the BNSF would not be significantly longer it may actually encourage folks to move out once they grow tired of the fad.

Further, given that Logan Square is not exactly as blessed with easy access to things like the lake front or Lincoln Park or even a ball park, it is entirely likely that the shift toward sports bars and other such indoor entertainment options will happen more quickly than other areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rparz View Post
Yeah, when there was the mass exodous of people trying to leave the city.

Now, the younger kids want short commutes and don't even want a car.


Sure, it's 'short term.' So, Wicker Park will ride the bubble for 50 years or so. Long enough for me to buy a place, and sell it as a move on in life with different needs, desires and agendas.

When it comes to "buy a place, and sell it as a move on " the evidence is that folks that tried this strategy have already found it lacking: 2531 N Talman Ave Unit 1E, CHICAGO, IL 60647 | MLS# 08378271 | Redfin If you don't mind taking at least an $11,000 hit ON TOP OF significant HOA fees of $269/mo PLUS property taxes of over $3500/yr then sure, go ahead and tell yourself this is smart move, but my experience says that "short term" purchase of bubble priced real estate is not prudent ...


Maybe if folks spent more time thinking and less time worrying about who posts their own contributions might be more valuable...
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:44 AM
 
14,802 posts, read 17,560,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
I do think there are lessons to be learned.

Like Tom said, back in the day the really cool folks did not give the appearance of caring what others thought. It was less about money than attitude -- think Steve McQueen , not the parade of fake "reality" stars spawned by low budget cable networks...

The lemmings flocking to "hot" neighborhoods and then just as quickly the "next big thing" leaves them all looking elsewhere.

With the lightening fast spread of infomation the speed with which things goes from "hot" to "not" will likely whipsaw businesses and property owners that cannot remake themselves quickly enough.
Chet, even you know lemmings flock to the suburbs. Its been that way for 40 years or so.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:05 AM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,950,339 times
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Default Maybe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Chet, even you know lemmings flock to the suburbs. Its been that way for 40 years or so.
... if you are talking about some generic subdivision with nothing going for it besides "newly built tract homes at a low price" then I would agree that is likely NOT a wise place to buy unless you have an EXTREMELY long term horizon (like 20+ years) and even then you need more than a little luck to be sure, as many such developments have seen taxes rise and school quality fall in an unfortunate combination that destroys value.

In contrast the "non-lemmings" that find a home with character in a rail-centric suburb have done far better over just about any period on record -- you would be hard pressed to find a part of Chicago that has done as well as nice suburbs even going back to the pre WWI era when there were still farms and lumberjacks in Cook Co. to say nothing of the collar counties.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,827,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Hardly Logan Square...
Right, that was my point - East Lake View lost its cool factor quite some time ago, and you know how nature abhors a vacuum, and the Blue Line neighborhoods were it.

People seem to increasingly be confused about why the current incarnation of Wicker Park came into being in the first place. It was where people started going after Old Town, Lincoln Park, etc. stopped being cheap and unwelcoming to artists. It's dead west of Old Town and Lincoln Park, after all.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Etheric Plane
45 posts, read 92,432 times
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I was in Logan Square the other night. When you see dudes with those plastic sunglasses that look like Viewfinders and RED oversized frames (! ???) along with rolled up skinny cargo pants and boat shoes?

Oh so cewl...
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:04 AM
 
14,802 posts, read 17,560,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
Right, that was my point - East Lake View lost its cool factor quite some time ago, and you know how nature abhors a vacuum, and the Blue Line neighborhoods were it.

People seem to increasingly be confused about why the current incarnation of Wicker Park came into being in the first place. It was where people started going after Old Town, Lincoln Park, etc. stopped being cheap and unwelcoming to artists. It's dead west of Old Town and Lincoln Park, after all.
Exactly!
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,391,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
I damned well know Logan Square and the fact is that when it comes to commute the 20 minute or so ride on the Blue line to the Loop is not bad but neither is it so incredibly short that folks will never think about moving. In fact, one could argue that since a speedy Metra ride in from Oak Park on the UP-W or even LaGrange on the BNSF would not be significantly longer it may actually encourage folks to move out once they grow tired of the fad...
I'll concede that this is a good point. My commute from Berwyn to the Loop is significantly shorter than it was when I lived in Logan Square, mainly because the BNSF Metra is only a 15-20 minute ride, versus the Blue Line being more like 20-30 minutes from the Logan Square stop to the Loop. And that's assuming you live near the Blue Line station as I did. The affordable parts of LS on the west side of the community area come with quite a hike to the Blue Line stop that you have to add on top of that commute.

And when you factor in centralized access to the Chicagoland job bases, it's not even a contest as to which location is more advantageous. I know at least a few couples who were renting in LS and moved out by me when it came time to buy for this reason, and because you can get a house for the price of a 600 sf condo in east LS.

Having said that, I don't see Logan Square as a fad that's going to just go away. I've learned that you can tell a certain type of person about short Metra commutes and Strategic Automotive Job Access Corridors ("SAJACK") all day long and their eyes will just glaze over like you're giving a lecture on nuclear physics and they'll say "yeah, so what? It's the f-ing suburbs" or something to that effect.

There's just a certain urban cewlness (sic) there that no suburb can match. And there are always going to be people willing to pay for the privilege of being a part of it. As it gets more expensive, it'll become more "mainstream," and, yes, you probably will get cookie cutter sports bars and people who will gripe and spew inane nonsense about bike share racks being in front of their units. But that's just the natural progression of gentrification. Hipsters will definitely lament, but it isn't going to suddenly become a ghost town.
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