Back of the Yards War Zone (Chicago, Wheeling: student loans, wage, live in)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Is this a joke?

I think he's got it pretty right. Anglo-Saxon cultures tend to be more like the eagle which teaches its young how to fly by throwing them out of the nest when they reach a certain age. There's a social stigma attached to living at home when you're an adult.

In Greek and Latin culture it is more common to see extended families under the same roof, and there is definitely no stigma. My Chicago-born friends fit this stereotype pretty well.

I think there's a similar culture in Irish communities, which may be due to Catholicism influences, or perhaps it's just understood that on a small island there just aren't that many other places to go.

[jonnynonos]

Uh...OK... well, I can guarantee they don't have out of wedlock birth rates exceeding 50 percent, so they area apparently far more committed to the idea of family than many.

[Alacran]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

I think he's got it pretty right. Anglo-Saxon cultures tend to be more like the eagle which teaches its young how to fly by throwing them out of the nest when they reach a certain age. There's a social stigma attached to living at home when you're an adult.

In Greek and Latin culture it is more common to see extended families under the same roof, and there is definitely no stigma. My Chicago-born friends fit this stereotype pretty well.

I think there's a similar culture in Irish communities, which may be due to Catholicism influences, or perhaps it's just understood that on a small island there just aren't that many other places to go.

Yup.
White people move out after high school.
So weird.

[svillechris]

Originally Posted by Atlanta_BD

I was reading where I believe the mother of one of the shooters said these guys are doing this because there are no jobs. Now I can't speak for any of them or know what they do but how many of these gangbangers finish high school? What kind of education or skills do they have to qualify for a job? When was the last time any of these guys put on a suit or shirt and tie and went to fill out job applications? What computer skills do they have?

The other complaint is that there are no jobs in these depressed neighborhoods. But if you have education or some skills, or a basic desire to work instead of gangbang, are you just going to sit around or will you go all around the city and metro and look for work? Chicago is huge. Why limit one's job search to one's neighborhood? If people can migrate to other cities, states or countries to find jobs, why can't these kids leave their neighborhoods to find work if the real issue is a lack of jobs. If you can't find work, why not go to school?

What is the percentage of college grads who join gangs and shoot up people when they can't find a job?

The excuse that the gangbanging happens because there are no jobs in the area is merely that, an excuse. These people do not want to work 9-5 and earn an honorable living. Partly because of their peers and the pressures they put on them, partly because their parents do it, partly because they see there is the "opportunity" to get rich quick without expending much effort or labor to do so, and MAINLY because their parents have failed as parents and have not instilled the value of work ethic in their children.

The truth is, people on the south and west sides are incredibly close to a lot of jobs, within probably 15-20 minutes. They have the benefit of the red line (other than this construction right now) and the green/blue/pink line to bring them right to and from potential jobs in or near downtown Chicago.

People do not join gangs because they can't find jobs. More than anything, they join because they don't get the attention, love, or affection they need at home from their parents. So, they turn to gangs to replace that family feel they desire. It sounds silly, but the truth of it is that it's all based on feelings, emotions, loneliness, and a sense of belonging.

[jwaiter]

Originally Posted by svillechris

The excuse that the gangbanging happens because there are no jobs in the area is merely that, an excuse. These people do not want to work 9-5 and earn an honorable living.

Can we at least test the theory?

[Atlanta_BD]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Can we at least test the theory?

When you talk to some of these young guys not doing anything with their lives in Chicago (and I have), they are pretty up front about the fact they don't want to go to work or school. They also work hard to discourage those who want to make something of themselves, telling them college is a waste of time. I've witnessed this for myself. You'll be surprised how smart a lot these guys are but won't put it to good use because of peer pressure. The pressure to be a loser is strong in this particular sub-culture of young black males in Chicago.

People who make excuses for these guys say things like, "These young men need jobs, and not just minimum wage jobs!" Who the hell's going to give you a job when you can't form sentences when speaking, you didn't finish high school and you have no real skills or experience? Let's be realistic about that. Many of them will not have finished high school but will saying stupid stuff like they don't want a job unless it pays $50k a year and they come in as managers.They want the good life without working hard for it, which is why they sell drugs. They want fast cash instead of sacrificing and going to college. They don't hide their laziness or lack of ambition to do things the right way, these guys.

Svillechris is absolutely right. The no jobs thing is an excuse. Because even if you have no experience, there are jobs you can get to start somewhere. Just start somewhere!

[jonnynonos]

I understand the need to try and intellectualize things, but I'm not sure there is any reason like "He needed a job" that explains indiscriminately machine gunning children in a park.

The mob at it's worst didn't do that s**t.

[jwaiter]

Some people are born criminals, they can be from any background or economic class.

[svillechris]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Can we at least test the theory?

Sure. You can start the test. Go sample 100 random gang members. If you can find even 5% of them that have put a resume together for themselves, I'll admit I'm dead wrong.

Also, if I was wrong, then how do the other 80% of people who ARE employeed living on the south and west sides in the exact same neighborhoods make a living for themselves? Clearly it's not a matter of there not being enough jobs in their areas. If that was truly the reason, wouldn't nearly everyone from those areas be unemployed? That alone disproves the claim that lack of jobs leads to the gangbanging. Again, merely an excuse for lazy people to use.

[jonnynonos]

Here is the problem.

In nearly every functional American household to approach one's parents and say "I'm dropping out of school," they would think you were joking. Once they realized you weren't the annoucnement would be met with shock, horror, every single obstacle would be put in your way up to and including calling the police, kids would even be disowned.

For some reason that isn't happening in these environments, not even close.