Humboldt Park Invest or not? (Cicero, Oak Park: rent, home, to buy)

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by glenninindy

I remember when Logan and Wicker were "it things" back in the 60's. That's why they took off again. But not Humbolt Park.

Humboldt Park's problem is the location. It's just not very convenient. Avondale and Logan Square have the El run right through them with multiple stops. On top of that they also have the expressway run right through them.

Humboldt Park has neither. Humboldt Park is also surrounded by ghettos (with the exception to the east) and itself for most of it is still considered pretty ghetto, poor and dangerous.

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I don't know if it will or not, but I don't think Logan Square or Wicker Park either had remotely the violence problem that continues to plague Humboldt Park to this day. But I can definitely see the area east of the park popping.

Hell, I would say it is an eventuality given its location. How long? Anyone's guess.

I say 20 years.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by BRU67

From a logical perspective, what you say makes perfect sense. But gentrification doesn't always follow logic. Often it does, but not always. West Logan Square isn't good in terms of public transit, and isn't particularly interesting, but it's changing pretty fast because people believe it's changing pretty fast. And if it gets ritzy enough, the City will create the public transit around it.

The buzz on Humbolt that it's urban, cool, gritty and hip. Take that a few more steps and it wouldn't matter if you had to drive an hour to O'Hare Airport, go through security, and board a 787 to get downtown. People will want to be a part of that and the area will gentrify through momentum.

Put another way, the answer to this question lies more in the whims of some hipsters than it does in any logical factual analysis revolving around public transportation access and crime statistics.

Yeah, I agree with this take. What Riot Fest does is provide an insane amount of - however accidental - free advertising/PR for Humboldt Park. A lot of gentrification is driven by perceptions, and the perception that HP is somehow connected to the Riot Fest's demographics and culture is nothing to sneeze at. It's the same reason why so many Chads and Trixies end up in LP and LV nowadays (how long does Mr. Blotto get to headline every street fest east of Western?).

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by UrbanCheetah

I live in Avondale, and I am sick of seeing hipsters around here. Every bar opening up around here is flooded by hipsters. I live in an apartment building of 15 apartments. Easily 5 out of the 15 (including myself) are not people who are hispters. The rest of the 10 apartments have hipster residents. 5 years ago you never saw this many hipsters. They are all obviously moving here in droves and I mean in DROVES.

The writing has been on the wall for Avondale since they tore up Milwaukee and Kimball for the blue line expansion.

I'm not going to tear out my hair at the impending "hipster invasion" of Avondale any time soon, I'm almost directly on the Belmont stop, and the hipster presence is still largely negligible. The number of young families coming from Lake View and Roscoe Village dwarfs any skinny jean set, the hippest thing driving our area is Late Bar, and that's not hipsters, that's 30 and 40-somethings. We are homeowners, not renters by and large. Small Bar's patio now on summer weekend days is getting double-wide strollers and little kids.

There is no rush to sell/cash out, my neighbors are by and large in it for the long haul, I doubt I've seen houses on my block flipping much past one or maybe two a year for the past decade.

If the kids coming up north from Logan Square want to move into the large apartment buildings that are often quartering MLDs and LKs, good for them, I've been there and done that, my dues were paid decades ago.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by UrbanCheetah

But this is what i am saying. Where are there more bars and restaurants opening up in? Logan Square or Humboldt Park? Where are more condos and people moving to, Logan Square or Humboldt Park? Which area has more nightlife, amenities and diverse things to do, Logan Square or Humboldt Park? Where will you find more hipsters in Logan Square or Humboldt Park? My point is, Logan Square isn't fully gentrified or developed yet, and Avondale is in the same boat. I am not denying that Humboldt Park is gentrifying, but before it can take off like Logan Square did has done in the last 10 years and Avondale is doing now, those two places will have to develop and gentrify more.

I live in Avondale, and I am sick of seeing hipsters around here. Every bar opening up around here is flooded by hipsters. I live in an apartment building of 15 apartments. Easily 5 out of the 15 (including myself) are not people who are hispters. The rest of the 10 apartments have hipster residents. 5 years ago you never saw this many hipsters. They are all obviously moving here in droves and I mean in DROVES.

For Humboldt Park to take off like Logan Square has, it has to be a repeat of what happened with Wicker Park. Wicker Park was the Logan Square of the 1990's. Once Wicker Park became fully developed and fully desirable it became very expensive and pushed all those residents who gentrified the neighborhood out, who mostly went where? To Logan Square. Now the same thing is happening to Logan Square and Avondale to a certain extent. The thing is both are still very affordable and with a lot left to build up. Perfect example is the strip of Milwaukee between Armitage and California. It's bounded by two el stops, yet more than half the land there is somewhat vacant or rundown. I am pretty sure a developer would build something along that strip a million times over building something in Humboldt Park? Why? Because Logan Square is just much hotter than Humboldt Park now.

Not until Logan Square becomes the next Wicker Park, do I then see Humboldt Park really taking off. In the meantime it will be a slow gentrification process for HP and Logan Square is changing quickly and developing quickly.

I see your position. I'm not saying that hipsters aren't annoying in many respects, or that it's always good when the chain of events they set off forces the current residents into the great blue yonder (and some underfunded suburban school district). But we have to look at this objectively and give an opinion on an investment proposal. And in that respect, I think there will be an increase in hipsters in Humboldt Park in the next decade and hipsters mean increased property values. Just because one may not want that to happen doesn't mean that it won't.

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I see your position. I'm not saying that hipsters aren't annoying in many respects, or that it's always good when the chain of events they set off forces the current residents into the great blue yonder (and some underfunded suburban school district). But we have to look at this objectively and give an opinion on an investment proposal. And in that respect, I think there will be an increase in hipsters in Humboldt Park in the next decade and hipsters mean increased property values. Just because one may not want that to happen doesn't mean that it won't.

I am not saying that i don't want it to happen. I don't have anything against hipsters, it's just I am not one and don't share common interests with them.

As you say though from an investment standpoint what would you think would be a better investment, buying a 2 flat in Logan Square or Humboldt Park? I pretty sure Logan Square is the better place to invest as it's changing so much. Humboldt Park is changing and it's going to take a while.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Yeah, I agree with this take. What Riot Fest does is provide an insane amount of - however accidental - free advertising/PR for Humboldt Park. A lot of gentrification is driven by perceptions, and the perception that HP is somehow connected to the Riot Fest's demographics and culture is nothing to sneeze at. It's the same reason why so many Chads and Trixies end up in LP and LV nowadays (how long does Mr. Blotto get to headline every street fest east of Western?).

The amount of PR surely generated from this fest of cool is invaluable to the neighborhood, I agree fully. And unfortunately, I think Mr. Blotto will be with us for a long, long time

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Yeah, I agree with this take. What Riot Fest does is provide an insane amount of - however accidental - free advertising/PR for Humboldt Park. A lot of gentrification is driven by perceptions, and the perception that HP is somehow connected to the Riot Fest's demographics and culture is nothing to sneeze at. It's the same reason why so many Chads and Trixies end up in LP and LV nowadays (how long does Mr. Blotto get to headline every street fest east of Western?).

What PR/advertising did Riot Fest provide for Humboldt Park? Just that the festival was in Humboldt Park? That logic I still do not understand. Just because a festival is held somewhere does not mean that now the people who attend it are going to have an interest just that they now have been there. And that's my thing, Humboldt Park for the most part looks pretty worn down. So if anything it might be giving it bad P.R.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by UrbanCheetah

I am not saying that i don't want it to happen. I don't have anything against hipsters, it's just I am not one and don't share common interests with them.

As you say though from an investment standpoint what would you think would be a better investment, buying a 2 flat in Logan Square or Humboldt Park? I pretty sure Logan Square is the better place to invest as it's changing so much. Humboldt Park is changing and it's going to take a while.

Not enough information to make a decision. Where in LS? Where in HP? Condition of buildings? Price of buildings? Amount of rent generated by the units? How are the respective blocks (both areas have good and bad blocks and I'd take a good block in HP over a bad one anywhere). How close to public transit? Parking? Are there any incentives available for either area? What are the taxes? What ammenities are near the places? Are there any traffic issues (e.g. the place is right on Kedzie)?

You'd then crunch the numbers and see which one was currently generating the best cash flow picture. You'd probably also try to evaluate whether the HP building would appreciate to the level of the LS building and over how long of a period of time. You'd also factor in the risk that HP (or even LS) would deteriorate.

And of course money is a huge object. You see this more in the suburban forum but everyone always recommends the most expensive area. It's always funny to see someone asking about, say, Cicero being steered to Oak Park. Sure, pick an expensive area if you can afford it, but a lot of people have limited budgets, so they have to compromise.

[marothisu]

The gentrification of Humboldt Park seems to be pushing south from Palmer Square in Logan Square down towards the park itself. Again, look at the new construction building permits for that area south of Armitage in HP and you'll see a number of them close to the Bloomingdale Trail (er, 606). Not sure how much of it is developer and how much of it is private though but there's still a lot of action there or on the border.