Humboldt Park Invest or not? (Chicago, Paris: high crime, schools, income)

[jonnynonos]

No it isn't. Do you think Logan Square being adjacent to Wicker Park/Bucktown/the entire Milwaukee corridor has nothing to do with why it's being so rapidly gentrified?

Besides East Humboldt Park is not really that dangerous. Why are people going to stay away? Because across the park it's a hellhole? You could say the same thing for at least a dozen nice-ish neighborhoods in Chicago.

Who cares if it's technically part of the same "neighborhood;" those are not even official designations.

[chet everett]

I suspect much of the touted association with creative class inhabits and gentrification is really a side effect of the kind of shifts from an industrial city to one with more balanced employment. I further believe that these shifts are largely played out and that is big reason why Chicago and other urban areas are facing persistent underclass issues.

The seeds of these problems were recognized decades ago and there have been efforts to have different kinds of vocational / tech education in high schools and community colleges. Sadly those efforts have not been effective and neither has the for-profit education market done much to build up the capabilities of the urban workforce.

The need for dense urban residential development is severally limited by the ability of people to be employed / pay for such housing ...

(Btw I realize that the negative effects will impact the whole region and I largely tell folks that are searching for a quick return on multi-family real estate in the burbs the same effects are in play...)

[Vlajos]

I think it's strange that anyone would say gentrification in Chicago will stop. It slowed during the recession but has obviously picked up again. Avondale is an obvious place it's happening now, along with Logan Square, Uptown, Lower West Side, Bridgeport and West Town.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I suspect much of the touted association with creative class inhabits and gentrification is really a side effect of the kind of shifts from an industrial city to one with more balanced employment. I further believe that these shifts are largely played out and that is big reason why Chicago and other urban areas are facing persistent underclass issues.

The seeds of these problems were recognized decades ago and there have been efforts to have different kinds of vocational / tech education in high schools and community colleges. Sadly those efforts have not been effective and neither has the for-profit education market done much to build up the capabilities of the urban workforce.

The need for dense urban residential development is severally limited by the ability of people to be employed / pay for such housing ...

(Btw I realize that the negative effects will impact the whole region and I largely tell folks that are searching for a quick return on multi-family real estate in the burbs the same effects are in play...)

Very true. I'm suprised how few understand this concept, which can be generally summarized as saying that communities who can attract white collar workers will prosper and those who can't will not. It's gotten pretty black and white at this point and the pattern has been clear for at least two decades. There still is a "working class" of course, and always will be, but it's considerably poorer than it was in the 1950s-1970s. That's why public transit or easy car access to centers which have concentrations of professional level jobs is so important.

[Aleking]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I think it's strange that anyone would say gentrification in Chicago will stop. It slowed during the recession but has obviously picked up again. Avondale is an obvious place it's happening now, along with Logan Square, Uptown, Lower West Side, Bridgeport and West Town.

Flats just grabbed another building on Broadway near Argyle. It will be interesting to see how the retail/restaurant/bar scene responds in the next few years once all these units come to market. Including Flats, JDL, Somerset, and others there will be thousands of new market rate units coming to the neighborhood, many of them replacing hell holes.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Aleking

Flats just grabbed another building on Broadway near Argyle. It will be interesting to see how the retail/restaurant/bar scene responses in the next few years once all these units come to market. Including Flats, JDL, Somerset, and others there will be thousands of new market rate units coming to the neighborhood, many of them replacing hell holes.

I think I read about that one. It will be very interesting to see what happens. The bad pocket of Uptown keeps shrinking and I think will be all but gone in time.

[salata87]

Why is Logan Square booming, because Wicker Park is for same time too expensive for young people, push them to Logan Square. It is not because Logan Square is fantastic. People want to live close to "action' and this is happening mainly in Wicker Park. Logan Square has spots but at this point is no comparable to Wicker Park. Humboldt Park. East Humboldt Park, this is happening right now. West part, I seeing lot of young people buying there single family homes now, young kids start renting apartments but up to Central Park, further I don't see it anything happens anytime soon.

[UrbanCheetah]

Originally Posted by salata87

Why is Logan Square booming, because Wicker Park is for same time too expensive for young people, push them to Logan Square. It is not because Logan Square is fantastic. People want to live close to "action' and this is happening mainly in Wicker Park. Logan Square ha spots but at this point is no comparable to Wicker Park. Humoldt Park. East Humbold Park, this is happening right now. West part, I see lot of young people buying there single family homes now, young kids start renting apartments but up to Central Park, further I don't see it anything happens anytime soon.

Logan Square is certainly more "fantastic" than HP. I mean Logan Square just doesn't have a little more than HP for amenties but A LOT. I mean within Logan Square you have two movie theaters, Target, tons of bars and restaurants, lots of coffee shops, a big gym, large grocery stores, your basic yuppie chain restaurants (ie Panera, Potbelly, Chiptole, etc.) access to the expressway, you are adjacent to Lincoln Park and Bucktown/Wicker Park, you have numerous festivals within the neighborhood, a major concert venue, there is a lot more. The only thing I give HP an edge to is the park and that is it.

Some of you seem to be trying to paint a picture that Logan Square and HP are equal in what they offer, when that could be farther from the truth. Logan Square has A TON more to offer than HP, even the little sliver portion of East HP. Logan Square is way beyond HP.

And have you walked around Kedzie and Logan lately? I am sorry people aren't moving to Logan Square anymore because they want to live close to WP. They are moving to Logan Square now because they want to LIVE in Logan Square and get into the action of Logan Square. Heck if anything you have people from WP and LP coming to Logan Square to drink and eat.

[Aleking]

.

Originally Posted by UrbanCheetah

Some of you seem to be trying to paint a picture that Logan Square and HP are equal in what they offer, when that could be farther from the truth. Logan Square has A TON more to offer than HP, even the little sliver portion of East HP. Logan Square is way beyond HP.

no one said that

And have you walked around Kedzie and Logan lately? I am sorry people aren't moving to Logan Square anymore because they want to live close to WP. They are moving to Logan Square now because they want to LIVE in Logan Square and get into the action of Logan Square. Heck if anything you have people from WP and LP coming to Logan Square to drink and eat.

clearly, Logan is far and away the hottest neighorhood in the city and there doesn't appear to be anything like it on the horizon.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Very true. I'm suprised how few understand this concept, which can be generally summarized as saying that communities who can attract white collar workers will prosper and those who can't will not. It's gotten pretty black and white at this point and the pattern has been clear for at least two decades. There still is a "working class" of course, and always will be, but it's considerably poorer than it was in the 1950s-1970s. That's why public transit or easy car access to centers which have concentrations of professional level jobs is so important.

In light of this, what's very important to this issue is something I haven't seen discussed quite yet -- what is the future of Chicago's white collar workforce? Lookout Kid somewhat touched on this by saying that our hipsters are getting spread pretty thin. And that's probably true. So for Chicago to experience another large wave of gentrification, it will likely have to expand its higher paid workforce.

If taxes and other problems (like perception of crime, poor schools) drive away white collar jobs, not only would Humboldt Park not gentrify, but Logan Square and other areas could be in danger of reverting. Conversely, if Chicago can attract more of these jobs, it bodes well for HP and other Chicago neighborhoods too.