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It was always my thought people were happy with the segregation in Chicago
I think "were" is the operating word there. I don't think anyone "is" happy about it. For those who are, I'd argue that said happiness is contingent on not thinking through the bigger picture and being willfully ignorant.
How can anyone really be happy with the fact that there is so much racial tension in Chicago? Are there actually people of any class or race who enjoy the fact they are looked at disapprovingly once they cross street A or B?
While I don't agree with all of what I hear on this board about racism (specifically, someone of a different race not interested in a one-night stand with you is not racism IMO), it certainly does make me sad to know that people feel mistreated due to the color of their skin, and worse, that that we have enough street crime - however oversensationalized it may be - to justify that in peoples' minds.
I find Mary Mitchell to be a fair barometer for the larger changes in our attitudes as a City. This poor woman can't win. She reports on the challenges black Chicagoans face, and anonymous commenters rip her a new one for not placing the blame on them as individuals. She reports on her own struggles dealing with entrenched poverty and attitudes among black Chicagoans and the commenters rip her a new one because they feel that justifies their own bigotry. If you want to get in the muck, just look at the crap that people give her when she's trying to be brutally honest about her own biases:
I think "were" is the operating word there. I don't think anyone "is" happy about it. For those who are, I'd argue that said happiness is contingent on not thinking through the bigger picture and being willfully ignorant.
How can anyone really be happy with the fact that there is so much racial tension in Chicago? Are there actually people of any class or race who enjoy the fact they are looked at disapprovingly once they cross street A or B?
While I don't agree with all of what I hear on this board about racism (specifically, someone of a different race not interested in a one-night stand with you is not racism IMO), it certainly does make me sad to know that people feel mistreated due to the color of their skin, and worse, that that we have enough street crime - however oversensationalized it may be - to justify that in peoples' minds.
I find Mary Mitchell to be a fair barometer for the larger changes in our attitudes as a City. This poor woman can't win. She reports on the challenges black Chicagoans face, and anonymous commenters rip her a new one for not placing the blame on them as individuals. She reports on her own struggles dealing with entrenched poverty and attitudes among black Chicagoans and the commenters rip her a new one because they feel that justifies their own bigotry. If you want to get in the muck, just look at the crap that people give her when she's trying to be brutally honest about her own biases:
I sort of had a different view....People are happy with the segregation because there is so much racial tension in Chicago. I doubt there are many white people in Lakeview or Lincoln Park wishing more blacks would move to their neighborhood to make it more diverse.
I sort of had a different view....People are happy with the segregation because there is so much racial tension in Chicago. I doubt there are many white people in Lakeview or Lincoln Park wishing more blacks would move to their neighborhood to make it more diverse.
In honesty I just dont think they care in general. They are just living their lives like anyone else. I mean do you sit there everyday and think to yourself "I wish race #÷&;# lived more in my hood", I doubt you do, I doubt most people in lp and lv do. Its called having a life.
it really is hypocritical though. Do most blacks wish more latinos ad whites lived in their neighborhood?
I'm going to do some fact checking for you. You're free to look up this data too. It's from the 2010 US Census.
First, you did a lot of work with that post, so I give kudos.
That said, I think your post pretty much confirms what I wrote, though our differences of opinion may be because of differing viewpoints on how to view segregation.
I never wrote that "official community areas" are all segregated; I wrote that races are all segregated by residence. Community areas are quite large and can be diverse, yet there is still segregation within the community area.
You are basically asking me to prove that the official community area boundaries were established exactly in line with the current racial divides in 2013. Obviously I can't do that, but that doesn't mean that segregation doesn't exist. It just doesn't exact follow the community boundaries.
The community area boundaries were established a long time ago and don't necessarily follow current racial boundaries. You could have two community areas next to one another, both 50-50 black/Hispanic, so appear integrated, but in reality, all the blacks live on one side of a street, and all the Hispanics live on the other side.
For example, I refuse to say the Near North Side is integrated because it contains a large black population in Cabrini Green and adjacent subsidized housing, and almost no black population anywhere else. Yes, technically, on a community area boundary level, the Near North Side is integrated, but not in reality.
First, you did a lot of work with that post, so I give kudos.
That said, I think your post pretty much confirms what I wrote, though our differences of opinion may be because of differing viewpoints on how to view segregation.
I never wrote that "official community areas" are all segregated; I wrote that races are all segregated by residence. Community areas are quite large and can be diverse, yet there is still segregation within the community area.
You are basically asking me to prove that the official community area boundaries were established exactly in line with the current racial divides in 2013. Obviously I can't do that, but that doesn't mean that segregation doesn't exist. It just doesn't exact follow the community boundaries.
The community area boundaries were established a long time ago and don't necessarily follow current racial boundaries. You could have two community areas next to one another, both 50-50 black/Hispanic, so appear integrated, but in reality, all the blacks live on one side of a street, and all the Hispanics live on the other side.
For example, I refuse to say the Near North Side is integrated because it contains a large black population in Cabrini Green and adjacent subsidized housing, and almost no black population anywhere else. Yes, technically, on a community area boundary level, the Near North Side is integrated, but not in reality.
1) Though you have a good point about community areas being segregated within them (see below for more information and calculations), what you just said does not apply to what you said about White populations. You said that most of them are in the neighborhoods (i.e. north side ones) along the lake and the cop/fireman neighborhoods. Then you mentioned about census tracts. Your statement doesn't work for this because you picked a finite number of neighborhoods out of the 77 community areas. I counted the entire community areas to show you that even with those, they account to less than 50% of all white people in the city of Chicago. Certainly if I took tracts above say 80% white in those community areas, it would add up to less than the number I quoted, because tracts to
2) If you can't collect the numbers at below the community area level, then how do you know the exact number or the general "almost all" idea? You are obviously guessing and indirectly admitted it whether you know it or not. Nobody is denying the fact that black-white segregation in Chicago exists, but you basically admitted that you guessed on that "almost all" figure, which is a bold statement. Now, if you would have said "a lot of them do, over 50%" then you would be correct and probably nobody would even think twice about what you said.
You claimed that "almost all" black people in Chicago (for example) live in areas that are 90% or more black. Then you say:
Quote:
You are basically asking me to prove that the official community area boundaries were established exactly in line with the current racial divides in 2013. Obviously I can't do that, but that doesn't mean that segregation doesn't exist.
You do have a point, that segregation can occur within community area boundaries, so I'll do it for you. I'll break it down even more by census tract.
So for example right now, again there were 878,948 black people in the 2010 census. By census tract (A census tract can only belong to one community area), 563,564 of those live in tract that are 90% or more black. Still a lot of people, but most? No. That's 64% and that means there's 315,384 black people in Chicago living in census tracts that are lower than 90%. You are still way off even if that's a high number, it's a far cry from "almost all."
Here's your histogram of census tracts
90%-100% | 563,564 Black people
80-89.99% | 37,242 people
70-79.99% | 33,174 people
60-69.99% | 34,266 people
50-59.99% | 38,071 people
40-49.99% | 12,380 people
30-39.99% | 21,616 people
20-29.99% | 32,326 people
10-19.99% | 32,373 people
As you can see, obviously the highest percentage lives in tracts that are 90%+ black. However, that's still a far cry from "almost all." After that, with the exception of one percentage group (maybe two) out of 8, the number of people is spread very close to evenly amongst the percentage groups. There's almost as many people living in tracts that are 10-19.99% Black than there are living in tracts that are 80-89.99% Black
MEXICAN POPULATION
We can do the same thing for Mexican and in tracts by Hispanic %
90-100% | 84,094 Mexican people
80-89.99% | 160,572 people
70-79.99% | 74,792 people
60-69.99% | 59,846 people
50-59.99% | 26,531 people
40-49.99% | 44,389 people
30-39.99% | 38,899 people
20-29.99% | 36,593 people
10-19.99% | 28,888 people
0-9.99% | 23,496 people
Keep in mind, the number on the left is the absolute maximum Mexican percentage, and for many census tracts it will be less. Why? Because there are other groups in the Hispanic group. Even so, 172,265 Mexican people live in tracts that are under 50% hispanic. I'd say that's still a decently high number, at around 29.8% of all Mexicans in Chicago. In fact, for areas under 80% hispanic, there are 333,434 Mexicans there, or 57.7%. 32.3% are above 80%, which isn't much more than the population of those below 50%
WHITE POPULATION Keep in mind, this is counting all tracts in all community areas, not just ones in the "lakeside areas" and "cop areas." Your original statement that almost all white people live in these neighborhoods is still false.
90-100% | 8366 white people
80-89.99% | 196,738 people
70-79.99% | 155,317 people
60-69.99% | 145,549 people
50-59.99% | 95,462 people
40-49.99% | 84,844 people
30-39.99% | 67,683 people
20-29.99% | 42,503 people
10-19.99% | 34,315 people
0-9.99% | 26,414 people
As you can see, the smallest group of census % by population is actually the 90-100%. There are actually 3.15 times more people living in the tracts that are less than 10% than ones that are 90% and above.
ASIAN POPULATION
I'm going to do this one for fun.
90-100% | 0 Asian people
80-89.99% | 6438 people
70-79.99% | 2799 people
60-69.99% | 1804 people
50-59.99% | 3533 people
40-49.99% | 0 people
30-39.99% | 9865 people
20-29.99% | 28,907 people
10-19.99% | 38,854 people
0-9.99% | 52,701 pople
I've lived in different neighborhoods, I've lived on the south side where I was the only white person, I've lived in Uptown where its "diversified",, I've lived in white neighborhoods, I've lived near diversified neighborhoods, and i have come to the conclusion that -
whether a neighbhorhood was diversified or not, did not add or detract for my happiness in life. I dont see it as any advantage to me to insist on living in a diversified neighborhood. If I pick a place to live and it happens to be one or the other, doesn't matter to me. there are other factors that are far more important to me.
glad u had a good experience. it really helps to go with friends. a mistake is to try to go it on your own with a pretty white girl. that can be difficult. its sometimes hard in white clubs--- but even harder in black.
I've lived in different neighborhoods, I've lived on the south side where I was the only white person, I've lived in Uptown where its "diversified",, I've lived in white neighborhoods, I've lived near diversified neighborhoods, and i have come to the conclusion that -
whether a neighbhorhood was diversified or not, did not add or detract for my happiness in life. I dont see it as any advantage to me to insist on living in a diversified neighborhood. If I pick a place to live and it happens to be one or the other, doesn't matter to me. there are other factors that are far more important to me.
I'm the opposite. I seek neighborhoods that are diverse because I like seeing different races bonding. I never want to live in a neighborhood where the residents show open hostility towards me because I am black. That does something to my peace of mind and sence of safety to hear racial slurs thrown around.
You see it all over CD especially amoung professional blacks and biracial families moving their family into a upper middle class area. We don't want to be followed by the police every night. We don't want our children to be mistreated at the neighborhood school or at the corner grocer. We don't want to have to give answers to idiots asking what we're doing in a certain area.
""As a criminal defense and civil rights attorney who is from Chicago and practices law in Illinois, New York, and New Jersey, Chicago is unquestionaby the most racist urban center in the country - at least from a criminal justice perspective. Many police departments and prosecuting agencies have some level of corruption. New York has its fair share of bad apples. Newark is incredibly corrupt - but not altogether racist. The Chicago Police Department, on the other hand, is designed to criminalize people of color through whatever means necessary, oftentimes irrespective of truth and fairness. And the Cook Couty State's Attorneys office does not function as a check on the misuse of police power - indeed they condone, support, and encourage it. Just by way of example, not too long ago, prosecutors in Cook County had an open and notorious competition called "The Two-Ton Contest." Prosecutors competed to be the first to convict 4,000 pounds worth of defendants. Defendants were literally weighed after their trial was complete so that the prosecutors could get their points. Because so many defendants were people of color, this contest was frequently referred to (mostly by prosecutors) as "Ni***rs by the pound." While this type of -in-your-face racism might not be tolerated today in the office, a shocking number of those prosecutors who participated in this type of conduct in 80's and 90's now sit on the bench. It's a vicious cycle that continues today because there is no real interest by Chicagoans in changing it. One could argue that the criminal justice system as a whole is racist, but the Cook County criminal justice system is uniquely racist.""
Chicago is a racist ugly city.
I'm the opposite. I seek neighborhoods that are diverse because I like seeing different races bonding. I never want to live in a neighborhood where the residents show open hostility towards me because I am black. That does something to my peace of mind and sence of safety to hear racial slurs thrown around.
You see it all over CD especially amoung professional blacks and biracial families moving their family into a upper middle class area. We don't want to be followed by the police every night. We don't want our children to be mistreated at the neighborhood school or at the corner grocer. We don't want to have to give answers to idiots asking what we're doing in a certain area.
Diversity matters to many!
I had a girlfriend who is black and when we went to Brick's pizza on Lincoln Ave the waitresses gave us funny looks. When I introduced her to some of my co-workers, they were surprised to see me dating a black girl.
Neither of us understood this, since we went to plenty of fancy restaurants in Manhattan (dinner bill $100+) and no one gave us looks, no one stared, we never felt self-conscious.
Last edited by oak317; 05-20-2014 at 06:29 PM..
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