Why is the Chicago "Blaccent" More Southern than Boston/NYC/Philly's? (Harrisburg: middle-class, employment)
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Yes, I think the OP is severely underestimating just how segregated Chicago is. The south and west sides are pretty much where black people live. I am not that familiar with how the south side is broken down, but anything past the White Sox stadium is almost exclusively black. Beverly (where some blacks live) is not even accessible by the Red Line.
There was and isn't a lot of race mixing in Chicago. In NYC it is inevitable that people will mix on public transportation. In Chicago, a white person can live on the North side their whole lives and have very limited exposure to people of color. I don't believe that's true in New York.
Yes, black-white wise it can be pretty bad in Chicago even if it may have gotten better in a few areas. I wouldn't say that anything past 35th is exclusively black, but there's a lot that is. However, Gage Park, Brighton Park, New City, Archer Heights, Garfield Ridge, West Elsdon, West Lawn, Ashburn, Beverly, East Side, South Deering, South Chicago, Hegewisch, Chicago Lawn, etc are all areas that are not exclusively black south of 35th. A few of these areas barely even have a black population (like Gage Park which is about 90% Hispanic). Morgan Park is also still like 30% white. There are also small pockets of areas like one in Pullman that are actually pretty mixed.
However, it would be completely correct saying there's a really big area of the south side that is exclusively black and has been for a long, long time. I created a map awhile ago using 2010 census data by tract which shows racial breakdown data by census tract. The red areas indicate areas where only one race has a high share amongst the people. More brownish indicates two races, and green indicates more than two usually. That is, the redder something is, the less diverse it is. The greener something is, the more diverse it is. If you click on each shape, you can see what the breakdown is for that particular area. You'll probably have to zoom out to begin as it keeps centering pretty low on Avondale for some reason.
would bet a little money that the severe segregation in areas like Roseland, South Shore, Englewood, West Englewood, etc is a major reason for the Blaccent of Chicago and having generation after generation of people whose ancestors came from the south living as neighbors.
I don't tend to count majority Latino populations in these conversations, because their history is a lot different than African-Americans, and it absolutely makes a difference. Latinos, for the most part, behave like other new immigrant groups and are more prone to assimilate (and I'd argue that many AAS WOULD assimilate if they were allowed the freedom to do so). We'll see how that changes over the next decade.
I don't tend to count majority Latino populations in these conversations, because their history is a lot different than African-Americans, and it absolutely makes a difference. Latinos, for the most part, behave like other new immigrant groups and are more prone to assimilate (and I'd argue that many AAS WOULD assimilate if they were allowed the freedom to do so). We'll see how that changes over the next decade.
I was just pointing out that there are large areas south of 35th that are largely non black and there are also a few mixed areas (i.e. Hyde Park, Ashburn, parts of Morgan Park, etc). I have no idea how it's going to pan out and well at least I personally wish areas were a lot more diverse, but that might be easier said than done in some areas.
As far as the accent goes, I'm pretty sure severe segregation is the reason. Geography and climate doesn't have much to do with how someone sounds or talks as much as the language they actually use, culture, and childhood development. The fact is that you have large areas of town where they were made up of people from the Great Migration from the south and really nobody else. Your accent is learned from childhood by who is around you, so if nobody moves away and everyone has kids, they will pick up that accent too and it will just continue until you have more diversity in accents and perhaps over time the accent will slightly change.
I mean NYC has/had that too but it's for sure possible they actually had more exposure when they were children to people with other accents. There are still people on the south side who have never been anywhere outside of the south side in their lives. I didn't believe it either, but my friend is a public defender and does a lot of pro bono work and has told me about a bunch of people from the south side he has represented who told him it was the first time they'd ever traveled outside of the south side to go downtown to his office.
This is all true. But for all the unfortunate stories of racism & prejudice in Chicago, you also have a rich history of black enterprise. Take the privately held Johnson Publishing Company for example. This company is behind both Ebony & Jet magazines. Success stories like this might have been more difficult to realize in the smaller markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis
I agree totally.
The thought that upper class Blacks don't experience racism in Chicago is a bunch of mess.
There is racism everywhere even in NYC. The impact on the culture of the city is what I don't know because I never lived there. According to the rankings done most recently, NYC is more segregated than Chicago.
The Bridgeport situation is just one example that could have happened in any city but seems more prevalent here. Unfortunately professional Whites don't mix with professional Blacks in Chicago like I've seen in other places. Much of that is due to the segregation of Blacks. I've also noticed an overwhelming majority of Blacks who live here are from here. Chicago doesn't retain Black professional transplants like DC, Houston or even a "Raleigh" type city. Many are turned off by the segregation and the weirdness factor that comes from the culture that embracesses it and states its social economic.
This is all true. But for all the unfortunate stories of racism & prejudice in Chicago, you also have a rich history of black enterprise. Take the privately held Johnson Publishing Company for example. This company is behind both Ebony & Jet magazines. Success stories like this might have been more difficult to realize in the smaller markets.
Yep, for all the racist **** they were subjected to in the beginning by the city awhile ago, they still managed to open businesses and be successful. Let's not forget all the amazing musicians to come out and influence generations after too in not only the US, but other countries in the world.
This is all true. But for all the unfortunate stories of racism & prejudice in Chicago, you also have a rich history of black enterprise. Take the privately held Johnson Publishing Company for example. This company is behind both Ebony & Jet magazines. Success stories like this might have been more difficult to realize in the smaller markets.
That's the shocking part of my move to Chicago. Oprah, President Obama, Johnson and Johnson publishing. The good is here. I had heard many talk about racism in Chicago and I did not believe it. There is some bitter history too.
BTW, World Wide Technologies is the largest black owned business was nurtured in St Louis. Small markets do a good job nurturing Black entrepreneurs. There are numerous success stories all over the country many are in smaller markets.
In that case I stand corrected. Many the smaller markets are possibly being slept on. When I think of modern-day black enterprises, I tend to think of Atlanta & D.C. followed by NYC & LA due to demographics & because of the unique industries located in some of those areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis
That's the shocking part of my move to Chicago. Oprah, President Obama, Johnson and Johnson publishing. The good is here. I had heard many talk about racism in Chicago and I did not believe it. There is some bitter history too.
BTW, World Wide Technologies is the largest black owned business was nurtured in St Louis. Small markets do a good job nurturing Black entrepreneurs. There are numerous success stories all over the country many are in smaller markets.
In that case I stand corrected. Many the smaller markets are possibly being slept on. When I think of modern-day black enterprises, I tend to think of Atlanta & D.C. followed by NYC & LA due to demographics & because of the unique industries located in some of those areas.
DC is hot because of the government and a highly educated and affluent professional class.
Atlanta has had good PR and many Blacks have been sold on making it the Black mecca. Plus you have hbcu's, and a history of Black polititians like Andrew Young and Maynard Jackson who stood up for Black businesses being part of building that city. Where as Chicago and many other places still hasn't caught on.
Although I hate Memphis with a passion you do see quite a few Black owned businesses. Shelby county is in the top 5 for the percentage of Black owned businesses.
Raleigh Durham and Charlotte areas are hot now as well. Once again, you're dealing with many hbcu's located in the state of North Carolina. Many professionals want to get away from the northern cities who want to be closer to their southern family are moving back south and the ideal life is more in reach compared to older cities. That's bringing family oriented people who are entrepreneurs to their state in droves.
I don't think we have to be in big cities any more to thrive. Each city is what we make of it but some are better for Blacks than others.
I think those cities actually do have a larger West Indian population you see in the Midwest, and it probably does play a role in differences in accents.
They don't have large West Indian populations at all.
Buffalo
Total Black population: 99,197
West Indian: 2,858
2.88% of Black population
Harrisburg
Total Black population: 25,474
West Indian: 637
2.50% of Black population
Paterson
Total Black population: 45,633
West Indian: 6,159
13.49% of Black population
Philadelphia
Total Black population: 662,657
West Indian: 26,650
4.02% of Black population
Reading
Total Black population: 11,113
West Indian: 1,347
12.12% of Black population
____________________________
Chicago
Total Black population: 889,250
West Indian: 12,425
1.39% of Black population
NYC
Total Black population: 2,059,279
West Indian: 612,506
29.74% of Black population
Although Chicago is the lowest of the bunch (1.39%), it's really not significantly lower than Buffalo (2.88%), Philly (4.02%) or Harrisburg (2.50%). Chicago also has a larger African population that we have not accounted for, but I have only included "West Indian" to make this an apples-to-apples comparison. As we see from the data above, all of these places are a far cry from New York where 29.74% of the black population is of West Indian descent. West Indians and Africans combined represent about 40% of NYC's black population.
So I don't think having a large West Indian population is the difference here as many of these cities don't have large West Indian populations. If anything, the Puerto Rican/Dominican populations would be a bigger difference maker. In Reading, for example, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans outnumber African Americans by a 3 to 1 margin. Puerto Ricans and Dominicans also outnumber blacks in Paterson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiVegas
And "The South" is not a uniform area. Blacks who came from "The South" in NYC and Chicago came from totally different regions. North Carolina and Virginia are different from Arkansas, Alabama, and Mississippi.
But what does that have to do with anything? Blacks in Philly could have conceivably retained much more of their Carolina and Virginia accents.
The thing is with a few groups - some of them ended up moving to closer suburbs. For example, most of the Koreans used to live in town and now live in the near northern suburbs. Same with Japanese and the jewish community (though one area still exists in town that is big time jewish). You might end up finding more West Indies folk in some of the closer suburbs that geographically integrate with the city than the city itself today or the census data isn't accurate because of how people answered questions, or..who knows. Chicago doesn't have a huge West Indies population, but still..
In 1999, community leaders estimated 35,000 Belizeans living in Chicago, although the 2000 census counted only 4,242 in the metropolitan area.
Last edited by marothisu; 01-07-2014 at 08:36 AM..
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