You can soon buy guns in the City of Chicago. Legally that is. (violent crime, house)

[Lollapalooza773]

Originally Posted by DoubleMakers

You can't leglistate a criminal. By definition they do not follow the law, so more laws will have no impact on whether or not they will get a gun. Someone has already pointed out that there's no way you're going to get rid of all of the guns in America. Just give it up, it's not going to happen. Prior to last week, 49 other states had legalized concealed carry and none of those states had an uptick in gun vioence after they passed CC. Chicago on the other hand has some of the most strict gun laws in the nation and last year over 430 people were murdered in the city. Some of you are under the impression that offering up a concealed carry license or the selling of legal fire arms to citizens who have passed a background check will actually increase the number of gun deaths we have in the city. That is an incorrect assumption. I challenge some of you anti-gun individuals to actually sit in on a concealed carry course someday. I had a CC permit in another state and they teach you quite a bit about the law and what it means to pull your weapon on someone. In Lolla's example above, there's no way in hell I would pull a gun out in a situation like that. You want my wallet and the $200 in it, fine take it. It's not worth my life nor yours. Do you have any idea how much in legal fees it's going to cost me if I shoot someone, even if it's a perfectly justified shooting? A lot more than $200. Responsible, educated and properly trained gun owners know this. Some of you are afraid of guns and I get that, but some of us grew up around guns and know how to be responsible gun owners. We're not all George Zimmerman (who I personally think is an idiot and is the exact opposite of most gun owners I know).

Ahh! This make plenty of sense! If conceal and carry can and will drop crime then I'm all for it! When can I expect to see people walking in the streets with their legal guns? I just want to know.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by coldwine

I would be content with merely limiting the selection of guns available. Semi or automatic anything should be available only to members of the armed forces or federal agents in the line of fire.

In the same way that I know my personal choices have negligible impact on something like pollution, I do not accept the counterargument that "because they can buy it elsewhere" makes the sale of guns OK anywhere. The harder they are to get, so much the better. Make bullets more expensive and tax the ever-lasting hell out of gun permits.

It would be interesting if gun owners had to buy insurance policies. Or were forced to serve at hospitals in trauma care units so many hours each year. People who insist upon foisting the costs and horrors of their obnoxious second amendment "rights" upon society ought to be the ones who pay for them.

Originally Posted by coldwine

I brought up gun permits, taxes and insurance to point out what I would like to see in addition to existing gun laws.

I did not structure my argument around the premise that criminals do these things. I used gun permits and insurance specifically to point out what I wanted from existing law. I used taxation to support my theory that more expensive guns would deter criminals. I did not qualify how much crime, so the default assumption is "some crime".

Do not try and wrap my words into one context when I explicitly qualified the scenario.

"support my theory that more expensive guns would deter criminals."

How do more expensive guns deter criminals? Do you think criminals are buying guns from gun shops? (they're not....)
Please explain because I'm really interested in hearing your theory.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by Isotope-C14

I suppose you just answered the logic of what the founding fathers would have envisioned with the second paragraph. Funny how I can be "Wrong." and you turn around and re-state what I said, as it is the logical conclusion of what would be written in the late 1700's.

What is it about gun-nuts and a lack of logic and reasoning?

Are you all just so afraid of the world that you can't take a burglar in a one on one? Or be smarter and set up cameras if you live in one of these palatial estates? Or is it an issue of a perhaps, biological deficiency which could perhaps be less of a danger to all but yourselves if it was just a Harley?

Ok Isotope, I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you when some punk on the L tells you to hand over your iPhone and you say "wait a second, let me take your picture and email it to myself before you steal my phone away from me".

A much better response would be "You want my iPhone? Do you want to also see the 9mm Glock I'm concealing and will put a hole in you with?"
You think he's still going to take your iPhone?

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by Lollapalooza773

Well I got mixed feelings with it. To begin I can see criminals thinking twice about robbing someone if they armed or not and not willing to take risks.

But yet what if you walking in some area and someone with already gun out came out the alley and rob you at gun point and demand you to put your hands up what can you do? If they catch you off guard? You're practically still *****!
I could see someone with a gun permit walking by and see that going and demand the robber to drop his weapon.

Done a little research and most articles said that conceal and carry doesn't increase crime but it doesn't drop crime significantly, as gun owner are claiming to be.

But also I don't want guns in the city to be dirt cheap and easy to get with little effort that almost anybody. Some control of it would be good. Criminals in FL are calling their state "the gunshine state" Becuase of the slack gun laws over there.

We need tougher sentencing to those who commit crimes with firearms and also increase the chances of getting a arrested to those criminals. Also chicago is trying decrease gun DEATHS, Arming people with guns either for bad/good would increase that.

But at the end of the day it is new to us and we have to see how it all plans out, and if everything turn south we can apeal for ban and gun supporters can't complain about never having any gun rights.

It's funny that all you gun-rights opponents come up with these crazy scenarios of what could go wrong as well as guns being easier to access for criminals.

GUESS WHAT, THEY'RE ALREADY EASY TO ACCESS! with all the gun laws currently on the books, Chicago is still the MURDER CAPITAL OF THE UNITED STATES!

Criminals will get guns regardless of what the laws say. Conceal carry now gives law abiding citizens a fighting chance instead of just being a victim.

[DoubleMakers]

Originally Posted by Lollapalooza773

Ahh! This make plenty of sense! If conceal and carry can and will drop crime then I'm all for it! When can I expect to see people walking in the streets with their legal guns? I just want to know.

I never said crime will drop because of concealed carry. What I said is I don't think it will rise, as has been proven in 49 other states. And to answer your question, maybe someone should explain the definition of "concealed" to you.

[Lollapalooza773]

Originally Posted by DoubleMakers

I never said crime will drop because of concealed carry. What I said is I don't think it will rise, as has been proven in 49 other states. And to answer your question, maybe someone should explain the definition of "concealed" to you.

I know what conceal mean. Didn't mean "see" as actually seeing them carrying it. What I meant to say was when I expect gun owners to be out in public with their. I work in a store that allows it that's why I'm asking.

Originally Posted by lenniel

It's funny that all you gun-rights opponents come up with these crazy scenarios of what could go wrong as well as guns being easier to access for criminals.


GUESS WHAT, THEY'RE ALREADY EASY TO ACCESS! with all the gun laws currently on the books, Chicago is still the MURDER CAPITAL OF THE UNITED STATES!

Criminals will get guns regardless of what the laws say. Conceal carry now gives law abiding citizens a fighting chance instead of just being a victim.

I'm not coming with crazy scenarios. Sorry to burst your bubble but it does happen. Also didnt said I was against it, I have mix feeling for it. I'm in between.. Like I said, I could see bandits second thinking about robbing someone like those teen mobs in many cities. But they also don't know if you carrying or not becuase it's away from public eye. Like doublemaker said that not every owner is like Zimmerman which a lot of people would think. But you'll have some idiots who will mess it up for everyone and defeat the purpose of the law and use there gun as first defense even though their not suppose to.

[Isotope-C14]

Originally Posted by lenniel

Ok Isotope, I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you when some punk on the L tells you to hand over your iPhone and you say "wait a second, let me take your picture and email it to myself before you steal my phone away from me".

A much better response would be "You want my iPhone? Do you want to also see the 9mm Glock I'm concealing and will put a hole in you with?"
You think he's still going to take your iPhone?

Since I don't have an iphone, Would never get an iphone...

Why would you show off your iphone in public? Are you saying basic street-smarts can be replaced by arming yourself?

Would you really shoot someone over an iphone?

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by Isotope-C14

Since I don't have an iphone, Would never get an iphone...

Why would you show off your iphone in public? Are you saying basic street-smarts can be replaced by arming yourself?

Would you really shoot someone over an iphone?

I'd shoot someone over a stick of gum if they tried to steal it from me.

You see, I'm not some bleeding heart who feels sorry for criminals, regardless of their circumstances. If you decide to lead a life of crime, you're signing up for all the potential results, including getting shot and killed.

[DoubleMakers]

Originally Posted by lenniel

I'd shoot someone over a stick of gum if they tried to steal it from me.

Meh. I'm pro-gun and have carried in other states and I respectfully disagree. If I can get out of a situation without pulling the trigger or getting myself hurt, then I've won. Sure the bad guy got my stuff, but stuff can be replaced. Now if someone pulls a gun on me and I feel that no matter what I give him or do, my life is in danger, then at least a concealed weapon gives me a choice. Criminals on the street may soon start to wonder if the person they're going to target might be carrying, and that might make them think twice about putting "their life" at risk for a $200 iPhone. Or they can easily go into a retail store with a "No Concealed Weapons" sign and rob risk-free.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Criminals don't care about gun permits, taxes, or insurance.

But cops are still harder on someone with an illegal gun than a legal gun. Pot smokers don't care that it's illegal but they still get arrested for it. Guns are actually used to commit crimes though.