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Old 01-10-2014, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago
4,688 posts, read 10,064,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
These wide floor plans really alter the scale, and with all of the parking garage podiums, these developments feel so soul-less. What ever happened to sticking with the standard Chicago 25/30/50ft lots???
The results of mandatory parking minimums.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Every new residential building taking up a block in town? No, that's only downtown. There are plenty of smaller multi unit buildings in other parts of town that have popped up or under construction in the last year, including the 8 unit building almost next to that Target under construction. I think your geographical sample size is rather small. The big buildings aren't even a block. There is a 35 story residential building under construction near me as we speak that's probably less than a half a block.

Here's examples in other areas of town of things going up. There's probably more 2-10 unit buildings going up than huge high rises in the last year

http://tarisrealestate.com/assets/di...l/z/z8lece.jpg
http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/13...n_01-thumb.jpg
I was speaking of more significant development, not a tiny 8 unit development. I would be shocked if a 35 story building was built on anything less than a 1/4 block lot, but you are right, the majority of the extra wide, parking podium buildings are more downtown. Regardless, my original point is that buildings such as the Target on division, while good from a revenue perspective, suck the life out of neighborhoods.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:09 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,938,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiddy View Post
The results of mandatory parking minimums.
Is the parking minimum higher than in other major urban centers?
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read 7,176,403 times
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Old Town was one of the first areas to be gentrified (first by Hippies, then condos in the 80's). Subsequently the housing and mix of businesses just feel old and tired to me. There's not much there to attract me.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,771,714 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
I was speaking of more significant development, not a tiny 8 unit development. I would be shocked if a 35 story building was built on anything less than a 1/4 block lot, but you are right, the majority of the extra wide, parking podium buildings are more downtown. Regardless, my original point is that buildings such as the Target on division, while good from a revenue perspective, suck the life out of neighborhoods.

35 story and 30-40 foot fronts are more NYC sized lots now for new development. I think the lot sizes in Chicago are just larger. There is a hotel that might be going up in the Loop, or should be, which is something you'd find more in NYC. The lot is only 30 or 40 feet wide, but 27 stories. Too bad the design sucks:

http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/10...lton-thumb.jpg

I think the smaller developments are important anyway for areas unless it's in the middle of a high rise district.

The place near me going up is the following. Technically speaking if every 100 units of address is 1 block, then this building is technically less than 1/4 block wide and probably about 1/4 block long or slightly a little more. It's also a hell of a lot better than what was there - two 1 story buildings not being used with half the lot in back as a surface parking lot for Loyola. Even if you don't do the 100 units thing, it's still taking up about a half a street wide and about 2/3 of one long.

http://stateandchestnut.com/wp-conte...tical_475w.jpg

Speaking of big box retail, the Gold Coast is going to see a reversal of fortunes. There is a Jewel with a parking lot right outside the red line at Clark & Division. That's being torn down and a 37 story residential tower is going in its place. Now, they are going to build a jewel on the bottom floor with shared parking podium for shoppers and residents, but it's a hell of an improvement from what's there now. This one is probably the worst of the bunch only because there's a retail portion of it which doesn't have residential 100% above it. However, the community is still working with the companies and alderman to hash out a design. Hopefully more of the tower is put above the retail portion.

http://www.goldcoastjewel.com/images...ision_copy.jpg


Currently under construction at LaSalle & Chicago (which was a vacant ugly lot) at 33 stories.
http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...32-nu0mrj.jpeg

Currently under construction at 212 W Illinois. About 1/4 street wide by 1/2 or 2/3 street long:
http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/212-2-338x500.jpg

Proposal for Huron & State:
http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/jeqm2A.jpg

Here's an example of something proposed and smaller, but next to the Paulina brown line stop in Roscoe Village:
http://i43.tinypic.com/o5sz1t.jpg

None of these are a block/street long or wide. Also with the more recent TOD incentives for the city, developers have even more incentive to build something with less parking, hence taking up less space, near transit points.

Also, how do you feel about the Target they put in Uptown near the Wilson stop? While I do not like Big Box retail like that in the middle of a city, I think it depends on what gets developed around it. The one on Division looks worse because there's not much around it. I'll be interested to see how the area develops 5-10 years down the road.

Last edited by marothisu; 01-10-2014 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:29 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,938,363 times
Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
35 story and 30-40 foot fronts are more NYC sized lots now for new development. I think the lot sizes in Chicago are just larger. There is a hotel that might be going up in the Loop, or should be, which is something you'd find more in NYC. The lot is only 30 or 40 feet wide, but 27 stories. Too bad the design sucks:

http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/10...lton-thumb.jpg

I think the smaller developments are important anyway for areas unless it's in the middle of a high rise district.

The place near me going up is the following. Technically speaking if every 100 units of address is 1 block, then this building is technically less than 1/4 block wide and probably about 1/4 block long or slightly a little more. It's also a hell of a lot better than what was there - two 1 story buildings not being used with half the lot in back as a surface parking lot for Loyola.

http://stateandchestnut.com/wp-conte...tical_475w.jpg

Speaking of big box retail, the Gold Coast is going to see a reversal of fortunes. There is a Jewel with a parking lot right outside the red line at Clark & Division. That's being torn down and a 37 story residential tower is going in its place. Now, they are going to build a jewel on the bottom floor with shared parking podium for shoppers and residents, but it's a hell of an improvement from what's there now. This one is probably the worst of the bunch only because there's a retail portion of it which doesn't have residential 100% above it. However, the community is still working with the companies and alderman to hash out a design. Hopefully more of the tower is put above the retail portion.

http://www.goldcoastjewel.com/images...ision_copy.jpg

Currently under construction at LaSalle & Chicago (which was a vacant ugly lot) at 33 stories.
http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...32-nu0mrj.jpeg


None of these are a block long or wide. Also with the more recent TOD incentives for the city, developers have even more incentive to build something with less parking, hence taking up less space, near transit points.

Also, how do you feel about the Target they put in Uptown near the Wilson stop? While I do not like Big Box retail like that in the middle of a city, I think it depends on what gets developed around it. The one on Division looks worse because there's not much around it. I'll be interested to see how the area develops 5-10 years down the road.
The 3 examples you posted above are all good, especially like the State/chestnut building as it holds the corner well. I am not familiar with the uptown target, as I am fairly new to Chicago (though I previously lived here for 2 years), but after googling it, it looks ok. I am not really a fan of Big box retailers in general, but the target on state (next to Macy's), is the best example Ive seen in this city (repurpose an old building), granted that is not possible on Division.

You are right about New York lot sizes, I grew up in Manhattan (washington heights), so definitely have a skewed perception of cities I admit. Probably need to remind myself that Chicago is not New York, I know I am guilty of this at times....
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,771,714 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
The 3 examples you posted above are all good, especially like the State/chestnut building as it holds the corner well. I am not familiar with the uptown target, as I am fairly new to Chicago (though I previously lived here for 2 years), but after googling it, it looks ok. I am not really a fan of Big box retailers in general, but the target on state (next to Macy's), is the best example Ive seen in this city (repurpose an old building), granted that is not possible on Division.

You are right about New York lot sizes, I grew up in Manhattan (washington heights), so definitely have a skewed perception of cities I admit. Probably need to remind myself that Chicago is not New York, I know I am guilty of this at times....
The Uptown Target one is not bad because there was stuff around it. However, it's nearly identical as far as my knowledge goes to the one on Division. The only difference is that there's stuff around it. That's basically what I mean about the area - your perception changes of an area as to what's around it. Considering things have been torn down there and what not, it will really depend on how the surrounding areas develop. I agree about the State Street Target - that is really good.

I knew you were from NYC so that's kind of what I'm getting at. However, as I pay really close attention to new development in this city, what I've noticed is that developers in the last year have been dialing back the amount of parking they have been putting into big developments and hence the floor plate sizes of them have been getting smaller. For example, that State & Chestnut development currently under construction is to be 367 units, but only 165 parking spaces. The Chicago & LaSalle one is for 295 units, but 131 parking spaces.

Also in the western part of the Loop, this lot was bought and plans are to turn it into a 24 story hotel. Not a huge lot by any standard.
http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/Sc...03.48%20AM.png

Here's another example of something and while it's not skinny, the good news is that this place has ZERO parking spaces because it's right on top of the blue line on the Wicker Park/Noble Square/East UK Village border. I believe this is about 100 units.
http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...izza2COVER.jpg


The city passed a few months ago a TOD ordinance. Unfortunately an amendment was put in place at the last minute, but it's a start:
Zoning Committee Passes Watered Down TOD Ordinance | Streetsblog Chicago
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,620 posts, read 8,118,849 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by campsdeloscamps View Post
lol u blelong in the suburbs maybe try shcaimburg LOL!
I think you misread the OP's post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
North of North Ave is def better and more desirable, but I couldn't find a decent rental for such a short period of time. I am roughly one block west of Wells, between Goethe and Schiller.

Topo Gigio is excellent, IMO. I have become friendly with the owner, and pretty much dine there regularly.
I lived for a year on Goethe between Wells and Lasalle, in that vintage building mid-block. And then two more years nearby in the Gold Coast at Schiller and Dearborn.

Topo is good. Salpicon is also good. Last year a real institution closed when the divey Mexican place Las Pinatas closed - I used to frequent it, but the building owners drove the rent up beyond what they could support so I think the owners just retired. Their son talked a little about re-opening elsewhere, but I think he's given that up.

The bar scene, such as it is, is kind of a mix of older couples and brash young "bros" as you stated. This is mostly due to the relative price of things on the Wells Corridor I think. Prices are high, so older people and people in aggressive industries like trading make up a big part of the people in the area. Also, west of Wells has been the less-desirable part of the neighborhood for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
A friend of mine kept comparing Old Town to the East Village in NYC, and I just do not see it. I think my friend is an idiot
I guess I just expected Old Town to be much more than it is because of it's location. However, It isn't in my opinion. Was just wondering if anyone else felt that way.
It's history is different. It probably was more like the East Village in the 1960s, not so much today. In the 1960s it was very much counter-culture, which is why there's the Over 21 adult bookstore, the Up Down Cigar shop, Zanies, and the Bijou gay porn theatre/sex club and Piper's Alley, for that matter. In Chicago gay history, Old Town played a vital role and was even called "Out Town" by those in the know by the 1960s. But its role was longer than that - Old Town is home to the Henry Gerber House, the one-time home of the founder of the first documented gay-rights organization in the United States, the Society for Human Rights, founded in 1924. It was very radical at the time, as the first president of the group was a black man. It was relatively short-lived, and in a twist of irony the founder moved to New York and made a career in the Army.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
Also, what is with the (now closed) Dominiks and Target on Division, is that really the best Chicago can do for such a prime location? I don't understand on Chicago can be so awesome on some levels and so disappointing on others.
You have to realize that Cabrini-Green, all the way through until the early 2000s when it started being demolished, was ENORMOUSLY scary to ordinary Chicagoans and directly and harshly limited the kind of development that could attract people. Even in 2002 a cab I took on Division past the projects got hit by a brick thrown by children living in the projects there. The horror film Candy Man was set there and how it looked in the movie wasn't much different from reality. The violence and gunshots did impact Old Town. It wasn't until the late 1990s that development started to encroach on Cabrini-Green, spurred on by the City trying to invigorate the area, and it was really only in the past decade that things have started really being redeveloped thoughtfully.

The lack of a Division stop on the Brown Line has also limited development recently. It was removed because of a lack of demand and because there were problems with youth from the area getting on there and mugging entire carloads of people on the trains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
Old Town was one of the first areas to be gentrified (first by Hippies, then condos in the 80's). Subsequently the housing and mix of businesses just feel old and tired to me. There's not much there to attract me.
There is a second wave of gentrification now, but the area that the OP is in did suffer from some really, really terrible quality new condos in the late 1990s, early 2000s.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:30 PM
 
1,748 posts, read 2,557,425 times
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Old Town sucks? News to me. I like working out at that XSport, enjoy getting food/wine at Orso's, cigar at Updown, and hit up the library on Division. There's a tiny bit of hood on Sedgwick, but I really can't imagine people feeling threatened around the Brown line stop. Plus you've got Eva's Cafe right there, which is a top 3 coffee shop in my non-expert opinion.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:37 PM
 
229 posts, read 292,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
I might be a little critical, but I really did expect more from this neighborhood. Given the location, I would have thought this would have been one of the most happen' parts of town. Does anybody else feel the same way?
Yes, this is where the city is going today. Rich developers from the suburbs building "modern"(**** themed) housing in the city hoping to attract yuppie residents by banking on whatever charm this city still has that attracts so many people. What these developers don't get, is that eventually their modernist garbage will outnumber the old beautiful housing stock that makes this city attractive in the first place
Also, our government is so corrupt that many of these new buildings that appear out of character(how did Walgreens get this space?) are built because of bribes.
This is why we lost a quarter of a million people last census. Save your money. Plan on moving somewhere else.
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