Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sure, people in theater, entertainment, and fashion design leave Chicago.
And Silicon Valley is a bigger draw for tech jobs.
Regarding theater, films and fashion design - Chicago offers many opportunities and a great
place to start but to be successful (in terms of being well known) hasn't that always been
in LA or NYC?
I disagree with the entire premise of the article and Renn's referenced piece. Chicago is not a provincial place. If you want provincial, go look at Cleveland, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. As others have noted, there is a net gain of talent into Chicago year over year. The reality is the city offers a wealth of opportunity, ability to stay in place if you would like to do so, it does need to do a better job of attracting innovators, but this need must be tempered by the fact that not everyone can be #1.
In terms of dynamism and economic importance, just about any city in the world does not compare to NYC. Period. London can stake a claim. That's about it. NYC is the single most important global market there is. Boston and the Bay Area are the two most important tech centers in the world. LA is the entertainment capital of the world. Chicago is not a "cultural capital" as many cities are that are essentially the heart of their respective countries' national heritage (Moscow, Tokyo, Buenos Aires, Berlin, Paris, etc.). DC is the heart of the American political landscape. Certain natural amenity cities will always fare better than Chicago in that regard (Seattle, Miami, Bay Area, LA, etc.).
Chicago does not have the strategic location of a finance hub like Hong Kong or Singapore.
Yet it's still the #2 finance center in the largest economy in the world and a top half dozen player globally in that regard. It's more domestically focused due to geography. Some other markets like Dallas, Atlanta, Denver, etc. are emerging, but they're emerging because they filled a regional vacuum. A vacuum that does not exist in the older Midwest.
Chicago can and should strive to do better in certain areas (corruption, transparency, fiscal responsibility, international marketing), but certain limitations must be realized. More developed synergies between Chicago and the rest of the Midwest markets, which themselves aren't growing a lot, must be realized. Contrast that with synergies on the DC-Boston corridor. Those came about with better geographic proximity. An innovation friendly culture along the lines of Austin or Seattle would certainly help too. That's much easier to achieve when those places never got the massive influx of poor and working class residents that Chicago did, nor have they had to focus as much money and energy on transforming from a post industrial economy.
Every urban area and region must play the hand it has been dealt. While Chicago hasn't played its hand in the best possible way, it has played it more than just competently. It's not rotting from the inside, the economy is changing, and it does welcome an outsider's view. GAWC places Chicago at #10 in the world in terms of connectivity and global importance. You don't maintain that level of status while taking an introspective, resistant to change, navel gazing approach to the world. Growth in Asia means that 6 cities (including Sydney have ascended in global status), but when you look at the "old" markets, you're only left with NYC, Paris, and London above and LA, Moscow, Madrid, Milan, Frankfurt, and Brussels below, but on the same tier.
...An innovation friendly culture along the lines of Austin or Seattle would certainly help too. That's much easier to achieve when those places never got the massive influx of poor and working class residents that Chicago did, nor have they had to focus as much money and energy on transforming from a post industrial economy.
A-men. Let's send a few hundred thousand desperately poor people to these "innovation hub" cities and see what they come up with. Some sort of anti-growth zoning restriction a la Portland is my guess.
Regarding theater, films and fashion design - Chicago offers many opportunities and a great
place to start but to be successful (in terms of being well known) hasn't that always been
in LA or NYC?
Yep. The fact that these things exist in Chicago AT ALL is pretty remarkable, in my opinion.
The decades-old narrative about the midwest is that it's boring and provincial compared to New York, L.A., San Francisco, etc. So we shouldn't be surprised when people take this brainwashing seriously. And in some ways it became a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the media and entertainment industries became more centralized in the late 20th Century at the expense of regional entities. But we're starting to see that break apart... Entertainment is increasingly de-centralized in the internet era, and the generation of content is more scattered across the globe. The centralized music industry is suffering, as are publishing houses and large television networks. Maybe this will create greater opportunities for Chicago in the 21st Century to break back in to these industries?
I only bring it up when applicable. Most of my posts are about relocation and urban living and have nothing to do with race.
And I believe race was never mentioned by me or in the articles. It was about how Chicago can keep talent and attract talent. You pulling the race card is just an eye roller.
Quote:
You don't think racial segregation/racism is a reason many professional Blacks leave or never come to Chicago?
If you want to debate racial segregation, then save that for another topic. If you want to debate how systematic racism (supposedly it's well and alive in Chicago ... it's just "so integrated" that only certain people can "see" it) is causing black professionals & creatives from staying/coming to Chicago then you probably have downed a few fifths of Victimhood Mentality Bottle.
I have a strong feeling that it's more of "It's really in your head" than reality.
Let me ask you this, memphis, how's your workplace environment? Have you been held back because you're black all this time in Chicago? Did talk around the water cooler resemble anything harkening back to the Jim Crow days? Not enough young black professionals to ease your worry? I'm Asian - there's not a lot of Asians where I work and I would kick myself in the groin before I pull the "race" card. It's a low card to pull and I've slowly becoming skeptical when it's pulled.
At least admit this, memphis: You think Chicago is a racist city that's holding back black people, stuck in the stagnate Midwest. At least admit that so every time you mention segregation/racism I know you're stuck in some backwards (hugely ironic) mentality.
I use to talk about race relations like you, but now I don't. I grew up and out of that mentality. The whole "If it ain't integrated, then there MUST be something wrong!" is one huge screwed up ideology & standard.
Last edited by TheSunshineKid; 02-18-2014 at 01:18 PM..
Yep. The fact that these things exist in Chicago AT ALL is pretty remarkable, in my opinion.
The decades-old narrative about the midwest is that it's boring and provincial compared to New York, L.A., San Francisco, etc. So we shouldn't be surprised when people take this brainwashing seriously. And in some ways it became a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the media and entertainment industries became more centralized in the late 20th Century at the expense of regional entities. But we're starting to see that break apart... Entertainment is increasingly de-centralized in the internet era, and the generation of content is more scattered across the globe. The centralized music industry is suffering, as are publishing houses and large television networks. Maybe this will create greater opportunities for Chicago in the 21st Century to break back in to these industries?
I've never heard anyone say Chicago is boring. Maybe the typography bit it's far from a boring place.
Provincialism is another story. Many outsiders who come here to live will see some of the local neighborhoods with very little outside influence as Provincial. It's not like you wouldn't get the same thing in long island or some parts of la.
I would say there's more provincial tendencies in a place like Chicago because of the number of natives who hold on to traditions of the city or neighborhoods they grew up in.
Another that has been made is Chicago is well established and doesn't have to change what it is to be relevant in its place in the world right now. It is kinda like an old man who is successful. He's done it his way for so long and it has worked so why change.
Outsiders who experience Chicago will never see it the same way as natives. My perspective is the same as the guy who wrote the article. Chicago has to become more things to more people to keep transplants here. That goes for any city. The ones that grow are the ones that realize that. The ones that don't become stagnant or decline as time and resources change.
And I believe race was never mentioned by me or in the articles. It was about how Chicago can keep talent and attract talent. You pulling the race card is just an eye roller.
If you want to debate racial segregation, then save that for another topic. If you want to debate how systematic racism (supposedly it's well and alive in Chicago ... it's just "so integrated" that only certain people can "see" it) is causing black professionals & creatives from staying/coming to Chicago then you probably have downed a few fifths of Victimhood Mentality Bottle.
I have a strong feeling that it's more of "It's really in your head" than reality.
Let me ask you this, memphis, how's your workplace environment? Have you been held back because you're black all this time in Chicago? Did talk around the water cooler resemble anything harkening back to the Jim Crow days? Not enough young black professionals to ease your worry? I'm Asian - there's not a lot of Asians where I work and I would kick myself in the groin before I pull the "race" card. It's a low card to pull and I've slowly becoming skeptical when it's pulled.
At least admit this, memphis: You think Chicago is a racist city that's holding back black people, stuck in the stagnate Midwest. At least admit that so every time you mention segregation/racism I know you're stuck in some backwards (hugely ironic) mentality.
I use to talk about race relations like you, but now I don't. I grew up and out of that mentality. The whole "If it ain't integrated, then there MUST be something wrong!" is one huge screwed up ideology & standard.
Don't bother arguing with him. I have tried before, but he is a terribly stubborn poster who won't let up on his close minded views. Hypocritical to be honest, is what he is.
And I believe race was never mentioned by me or in the articles. It was about how Chicago can keep talent and attract talent. You pulling the race card is just an eye roller.
If you want to debate racial segregation, then save that for another topic. If you want to debate how systematic racism (supposedly it's well and alive in Chicago ... it's just "so integrated" that only certain people can "see" it) is causing black professionals & creatives from staying/coming to Chicago then you probably have downed a few fifths of Victimhood Mentality Bottle.
I have a strong feeling that it's more of "It's really in your head" than reality.
Let me ask you this, memphis, how's your workplace environment? Have you been held back because you're black all this time in Chicago? Did talk around the water cooler resemble anything harkening back to the Jim Crow days? Not enough young black professionals to ease your worry? I'm Asian - there's not a lot of Asians where I work and I would kick myself in the groin before I pull the "race" card. It's a low card to pull and I've slowly becoming skeptical when it's pulled.
At least admit this, memphis: You think Chicago is a racist city that's holding back black people, stuck in the stagnate Midwest. At least admit that so every time you mention segregation/racism I know you're stuck in some backwards (hugely ironic) mentality.
I use to talk about race relations like you, but now I don't. I grew up and out of that mentality. The whole "If it ain't integrated, then there MUST be something wrong!" is one huge screwed up ideology & standard.
Ok sunshinekid,
I'm responding to this with the best intentions and assuming the same from you.
One of the statements in the comment section brought up race. Any time any subject is posted, people will post response based on their experience. In this city, segregation impacts the Black community more so than Asians and other minority groups. I can't deny your experience and how it affects the way you interact with the city and wouldn't expect the reverse from you.
The subject is brain drain in Chicago. One of the largest group leaving the city are Black Americans. As one in that demographic, why wouldn't I mention the segregation being a major turn off. If you want to debate that's on you. Imo, you can't debate another person's experience.
There are many things that have been great with my experience with Chicago. Don't take it as I have the angry black man syndrome just because I tell why I see Chicago not being the best it could be. When I feel the race card is being played, there is nothing wrong with me telling my experience. Imo, you should not be offended by my posts.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
