Chicago's "brain drain" and culture of "mediocrity" (Champaign: real estate, renters)

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

You keep beating that drum, but in my experience the "native Chicagoans" are far more racist than transplants from Detroit and Cleveland--who are for the most part liberal and educated. In fact, the only flat out aggressive slur-slinging racism I've seen in Chicago has been from minority to minority (like Mexicans yelling at African-Americans), or from eastern European immigrants--all who have a history of neighborhood enclave entrenchment in this city. And those old skin-head gangs that used to roam around Lake View and Uptown... Where do you think those guys were from?

Seconded.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

The old racist skin gang (CASH) were OUTSIDERS who came to Chicago to stir up crap and to try to recruit young people.

Yeah, outsiders from other parts of Chicago and the suburbs. Clark Martell, the founder of this group, was from Blue Island and had a history of trouble in Cicero.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

And I didn't say all transplants are this or that, but it is 100% clear - and has been for decades - that the gay residents of Lake View have had to deal with slurs and hate from the Big 10 fraternity crowd. I went to UIUC, you aren't going to fool me regarding what that culture entails - while most of them aren't racist/homophobes as individuals, neither do they do anything to stop that problem in their community.

Ah yes, the people who have come to be known as "bros". You yourself have said that this group doesn't define Lake View, and that they are a small subset of a larger neighborhood. And frankly, a lot of them are from Chicago suburbs, which certainly make up most of the student population of UIUC.

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Neighborhood enclaves are what they are - I don't see how the gated fortresses of suburbia are any less vile when it comes to tolerance and inclusion.

Most Americans live in "suburbia" in 2014, and it's hard to paint broad generalizations. I don't differentiate between the city and suburbia when referring to "Chicagoans", though, and the suburbs are certainly just as racist as the city in this metro area. The Irish 20-something UIUC student from Orland Park picked up his racist attitude from his dad, who grew up on the Southwest side and "white flighted" in the 1960s. Thankfully, I know a lot of people with racist parents/grandparents who can see past that idiocy.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

I don't know. America has 3.8 million square miles of space, hundreds of large cities, and not every person wants to live in a coastal metropolis. Talk to most New Yorkers and San Franciscans, and they understand the real compromises that must be made to live there. We have a different set of compromises in Chicago.

That's true.

I would love to live in New York City. I wasn't willing to make the sacrifice of location and quality of life.

I chose Chicago because of location and cost of living. If Chicago was everything New York was I'm almost positive I wouldn't be here.

Every city has its positive and negative things. Midwest has it's downfall but also the positive. Find out what you like and move.

.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Yeah, outsiders from other parts of Chicago and the suburbs.

Suburbs and small towns, yes. I never once heard of an actual home-grown Chicago Nazi. One of these scumbags moved on my block in maybe 88, and he promptly had bricks thrown through the windows, he lasted less than a month.

Historically Chicago has not been very big on the white power stuff (exception being some German expats in the period leading up to WWII). The KKK were notoriously anti-Catholic, which obviously didn't play very well in the white ethnic neighborhoods.

Chicago is more about turf. There's your turf, there's my turf, there's friendly turf, there's unfriendly turf, etc. Read up on the street gang alliance history of People vs Folk, ethnicity is just one component - and a minor one at that - in how the street dynamic plays out.

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

"Most Americans live in "suburbia" in 2014, and it's hard to paint broad generalizations. I don't differentiate between the city and suburbia when referring to "Chicagoans", though, and the suburbs are certainly just as racist as the city in this metro area.

You made a broad generalization to start, LOL. And you'll need to be far more specific to make any sense. You may not make that distinction, but who are you, again?

My parents weren't white flighters, and neither were my friends and much of our neighborhood. You can be sure we recognize suburbanites who are now returning to "safe" white neighborhoods, they're impossible to miss as they bring the whitebreaded dullness with them.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Yeah, outsiders from other parts of Chicago and the suburbs. Clark Martell, the founder of this group, was from Blue Island and had a history of trouble in Cicero.

Crack a dictionary if you don't understand the difference between Chicago and the surrounding suburbs.

We have enough homegrown problems, Chicago is not taking responsibility for inbred losers like Martell and his ilk.

[Josef K.]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

Every urban area and region must play the hand it has been dealt. While Chicago hasn't played its hand in the best possible way, it has played it more than just competently. It's not rotting from the inside, the economy is changing, and it does welcome an outsider's view. GAWC places Chicago at #10 in the world in terms of connectivity and global importance. You don't maintain that level of status while taking an introspective, resistant to change, navel gazing approach to the world. Growth in Asia means that 6 cities (including Sydney have ascended in global status), but when you look at the "old" markets, you're only left with NYC, Paris, and London above and LA, Moscow, Madrid, Milan, Frankfurt, and Brussels below, but on the same tier.

This is a good assessment. I've always thought of Chicago as sort of the Milan of the USA: a major business capital with a strong cultural and intellectual edge.

It's interesting to look at the Wiki disambiguation page for "Chicago school." The city has been a fount of innovation in a number of fields:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago...disambiguation)

[mjtinmemphis]

Chicago has some serious history. If there was a book written about the true history of corruption, racism, gang culture and architecture, it would be a best seller.

[slim04]

Originally Posted by MassVt

The OP is just a little disgruntled..maybe more than just a little..

What is this incessent need to be #1 in everything, anyway? SF is bound and determined to be the top dog in high-tech ( also seemingly determined to compete for the title of "America's Most Expensive City"); NYC is generally regarded as being tops in Finance and Culture ( museums, Broadway, fashion, etc), and DC will forever be America's Political Capitol ( along with center of federal employment). Why can't Chicago continue on the path it's always been on--being a little of everything, and "quite a bit" in some categories?

Nothing wrong with being "well-rounded"----just ask Detroit...

Diversification has always been Chicago's strength. The issue is that a lot of the industries or big industry players it had have been taking it on the chin or moving a lot of high quality jobs to other locations (SF, DC/VA, NYC, TX), offshore or to the south where there are no unions. So there has been a slow decline in the number of high quality jobs in Chicago for a while and it doesn't appear like it will reverse because the city isn't strong in the areas that are growing and hot right now like Defense, Healthcare or Technology.

In live in DC, I noticed places like Accenture have dramatically shifted a lot of jobs in this region and a lot of traditional HQ jobs are in places like SF, NYC or DC. The big mega-corporate HQ seems like a thing of the past and traditional manufacturing jobs are non-existent. The I-55 corridor used to be full of manufacturing plants that have since closed down. No one in the U.S. is putting together cell phone anymore like they used to for Motorola.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Crack a dictionary if you don't understand the difference between Chicago and the surrounding suburbs.

We have enough homegrown problems, Chicago is not taking responsibility for inbred losers like Martell and his ilk.

Chicago and it's suburbs are an interrelated whole, culturally, socioeconomically, and historically. I know this irks you as you have this odd "city purism" thing you always shove down people's throats, but there is really no way to study one without the other. And Blue Island and Cicero are hardly distant exurbs without close ties to the city.

Who is taking responsibility for anyone? Are you such a homer that you can't recognize the fact that anyone who lives in Chicago is Chicago's problem? And if you are picking and choosing who is in the club, are you then "responsible" for the "real Chicagoans" that pass your litmus test? Talk about provincialism!

You started this thing by trying to blame Chicago's North Side racial issues on transplants from other midwestern metros, and it was clear from the beginning that this was a load of crap.