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Old 02-21-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
555 posts, read 707,922 times
Reputation: 1173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
Even relatively speaking, "nowhere near" is a stretch. the majority of people commuting to the valley, are commuting from San Fran. Additionally, many of the larger valley companies have hubs in San Fran proper.
It would be interesting to see stats about this. Admittedly, I lack the stats as well, but I do know from experience that a lot of people from all over the Bay Area, not just SF, commute to the South Bay, where tech companies are located. Plenty of commuters coming in from the East Bay, a huge swath of land where it can be (relatively) more (cough, cough) affordable than other areas. Lots of people commuting in from the "Peninsula," which lies north of Silicon Valley, to name a few commuter centers.
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:54 PM
 
1,613 posts, read 2,140,226 times
Reputation: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
The OP's article is fairly strange. If there's one thing that Chicago is actually doing well in the new economy, it's attracting young college grads. I'll have to find the stats, but Chicago is literally at the top on that metric (even above NYC and SF) because of what others have stated here of how the city is taking in so many newly-minted college grads from across the Midwest in droves.
Obviously more people from, say, Indiana are going to end up in Chicago as compared to SF, but that doesn't mean that Chicago is attracting more college educated folks than SF; it just means that Chicago does the same thing as any other city (cleaning up in its backyard).

But, at the same time, while Chicago is a strong draw, it is not remotely near a NYC or Bay Area as a national draw. In NYC you will find huge numbers from every corner of the country, and especially from the top national institutions. More Northwestern Law grads go to NYC than to Chicago, to take one example. How many Columbia or NYU Law grads end up in Chicago? I'm betting a tiny amount. Chicago, while a big draw, does not have that kind of power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
If you're trader in the U.S., you basically need to be in Chicago if you're not in NYC.
Institutional and retail traders can be anywhere. In any case, there are very few college grads going into trading, and fewer still in traditional exchange trading, as the physical entities are obsolete.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
555 posts, read 707,922 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSunshineKid View Post
This blogger got me thinking. What can Chicago do keep its talent? What can it do to attract new talent? I know that the city won't be as innovative as LA, SF or NYC, but still. Job wise, the city needs to step it up - a very serious step UP. These are just a couple of questions that are bouncing in my head right now. As much as I love my home city, sometimes I think that its greatness needs more muscle - become more cut and lean in the job sector and its political culture.

Maybe Rachel Shteir Was Right | CHICAGO CARLESS

(Read the comments if you have time. Some interesting points.)



Leaning Towards a Warmer Climate | CHICAGO CARLESS



So he brings up two key points: The Chicago political machine and work culture. I think they're intrinsically linked.
I wanted to think a bit before responding. I'm not from Chicago, but DH and I are seriously considering a move there. But we're still not sure. For the last year, I've been watching the job listings, keeping tabs on the tech sector (where we come from), watching housing prices, reading up on politics, taxes, the pension situation, reading city-data etc. We have roots in tech startups, but we are probably older than most of the young whippersnappers talked about in the news these days. Assuming we can be considered "talent," I figured this question is something I can address:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSunshineKid View Post
What can [Chicago] do to attract new talent?
Chicago is attractive for many reasons. The city is beautiful. It seems cosmopolitan, all things considered. Train infrastructure is priceless -- and I mean that. DH, who is from the Midwest, says summertime is wonderful. All the attractions/amenities: Navy Pier, that bean thing park you guys have (yes, I am going to be one of those people who visit the bean and take a photo of myself in front of it when I visit this year), your theater and music scene, your new bike lanes and bike share program, that chocolate bridge I've heard about, etc. These are all very cool things, but it's the overall message that these things put together send: Chicago is alive. Chicago is a city that invests in itself and has an eye on the future. Chicago is a city that moves -- and is moving forward.

(Or maybe I've read one too many Rahm Emanuel press releases.) ;-)

Your city is a bit expensive in terms of home prices considering the poor reputation of the school district, but it's still relatively affordable compared to comparable areas of Los Angeles and the San Francisco Bay Area (includes Silicon Valley). Your suburbs are clearly an excellent deal when it comes to attractive, affordable housing and well-regarded school districts. All this is true, even with higher property taxes (so far).

Your economy seems, relatively speaking, diversified. You are no one/two-horse town the way Los Angeles has become and the way Silicon Valley is; by this, I mean you have quite a few big companies located there. That's extremely encouraging.

San Francisco, which lies north of the Silicon Valley (and Los Angeles, too) has seen plenty of companies leave over the years. It hasn't been fun. Simply put, it's become too expensive for them to operate, to recruit people due to housing costs, high cost of living, etc. If you're a young, single tech person, moving isn't so hard. You can get a roommate and rent. Your standard of living may not be that different from what you had before. But recruiting a person with a family is much more difficult. They may be living in their own home in a decent neighborhood with decent schools for their kids. Why would they want to downgrade their life to move to the Silicon Valley? Even for single people, eventually some want to get married, maybe have kids, maybe own a house in a safe, "good" school district and with a yard for the kids to play in. I'm not talking McMansion here, just talking modest home with a yard that doesn't share walls or floors/ceilings so the neighbors don't go ballistic every time your kid runs across the room.

Chicago wins in terms of affordability. Sure it's not super cheap, but it's nowhere near the cost of San Francisco and L.A.

I've been watching Chicago's tech jobs. While not trying to talk badly about anyone's tech companies (for truly, I found your tech scene encouraging), I must admit all the press seems to show are companies located in these painfully hip, minimalist offices where tables and people sparsely populate the room. Look at the job listings and there seems to be a great emphasis on the trappings of a startup: free food, foosball tables, sofas, free yoga. This actually discourages me. Real startups, from my limited experience, are started in low cost offices that look like this: folding tables, computers crammed onto them, chairs, whiteboards, a crowded situation -- and that's pretty much it. There was a time when you'd cram everyone and their computer into hallways, even the janitorial closet, in an effort to keep costs down. LOL In all fairness, it's not just Chicago; it's SF, NY, and other startups, too. Why are startups spending so much money on hip furniture and generous square footage? I can see how they might do this if they've already "made" it, but then they wouldn't really be a startup. Frankly, I'm not sure DH and I would be a good fit if this the kind of scene it is today. But that's just us.

In the end, I think Chicago has what it takes to attract and keep talent. You've got a vibrant, urban scene with nightlife and reasonable rent that will attract young people. You've got affordable single family homes with good schools in suburbs that are well connected by reliable public transit. OK, the winters sound challenging, but in the end, it's going to be affordable housing with good schools within close proximity to a diversified job base of well-paying jobs. I'm concerned about the seriousness of the tech scene, property taxes, CPS quality, and the pension situation (and the possibility of living in a city with mosquitoes, but that last part is just me LOL), but that's about it, really.

My take is just that -- my own perspective, and others will have a decidedly different take. That's cool.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read 6,655,244 times
Reputation: 3725
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydlee View Post
I must admit all the press seems to show are companies located in these painfully hip, minimalist offices where tables and people sparsely populate the room. Look at the job listings and there seems to be a great emphasis on the trappings of a startup: free food, foosball tables, sofas, free yoga. This actually discourages me. Real startups, from my limited experience, are started in low cost offices that look like this: folding tables, computers crammed onto them, chairs, whiteboards, a crowded situation -- and that's pretty much it.
Yeah, I definitely agree with you about start ups, and especially how they're portrayed/portray themselves in Chicago. I think it's a combination of reporters for places like Crain's or the Trib who really don't have a good understanding of start ups and companies trying to one up Groupon.

In truth start ups make up a fairly small part of Chicago's tech job sector. Large established companies like United, Aon, CBOT, various ad agencies, and financial firms account for many more tech jobs than start ups, and they are much more traditional in their office layouts and perks. Some of the pure tech companies (Orbitz, Morningstar, Google, Textura, Razorfish, etc.) have a bit of the "hip" thing going on, but not nearly as much as is depicted in business reporting.

I wouldn't worry about mosquitos too much, I don't think I've ever been bitten by one in the city and I spend a lot of time outside.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:25 PM
 
144 posts, read 130,132 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
Good question.

I saw the stats for that. Many exurbs of St Louis like St Charles, Jefferson and Franklin Counties are 95% White. That is what leads the region to having a slightly higher segregation index than Chicagoland.

The city of St. Louis on a block by block basis does better than Chicago as a city. When comparing the Central West End, Tower Grove, Old North, Soulard, Lafayette Square and Compton Heights to areas like Andersonville, Edgewater, Ravenswood and other 2nd tier Chicago neighborhoods there are more options for Black and White integration with in St. Louis.

As a gay man in St Louis, my social circle was normal. Actually I had more White friends then Blacks. The gay community seems a lot less fragmented and less polarized than the scene in Chicago.

St. Louis is no utopia by no stretch of the imagination. There is nasty history there and they do a good job of covering it up. Here in Chicago they let you know quickly who they are with no apologies. The worst racism I experience there was the usual funny looks or grabbing purses out of fear that is typical midwest foolery. Here it has been taken a step further on the level of being verbally confrontational. My over all experience has been a lot worse in Chicago than any other place. I can deal with the covert stuff more so than Chicagoes overt stuff.

My move to St. Louis is just as much personal as it is professional. I can actually have some of the same toys to play with that I have in Chicago with less hassle and have a higher standard of living. I think it's all about preferences and where you are in life.
I could be wrong, but judging from your posts, you seem to yearn for friendships from whites. If that's the case it's fine, as I am not one to tell you what group you should socialize with. I don't know you, so I am not trying to tell you I know what you feel and think. It's just that you appear to be very concerned about having white friends. You stated you had more white friends in St. Louis than black friends. Was that by choice or did you just have more in common with whites? I ask this because if you came to Chicago not knowing how blacks are treated, and how blacks treat each other, you were naïve. Chicago is not the place for naivety.

You posted earlier that you were looking at the city through rose colored glasses when you first arrived, so that shows you are showing some ownership in your lack of knowledge about the city's social issues. I think you'll be a lot more happier when you leave that place. The only blacks that I know that ignore the racism against blacks in Chicago are the ones that want to be white, the ones that are naïve, the rich ones( as many of them look down on poor blacks - even if you don't fit certain stereotypes), street gangs, and many black women (due to receiving better treatment than black men).
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:01 PM
 
6,118 posts, read 7,160,706 times
Reputation: 4886
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT445 View Post
I could be wrong, but judging from your posts, you seem to yearn for friendships from whites. If that's the case it's fine, as I am not one to tell you what group you should socialize with. I don't know you, so I am not trying to tell you I know what you feel and think. It's just that you appear to be very concerned about having white friends. You stated you had more white friends in St. Louis than black friends. Was that by choice or did you just have more in common with whites? I ask this because if you came to Chicago not knowing how blacks are treated, and how blacks treat each other, you were naïve. Chicago is not the place for naivety.

You posted earlier that you were looking at the city through rose colored glasses when you first arrived, so that shows you are showing some ownership in your lack of knowledge about the city's social issues. I think you'll be a lot more happier when you leave that place. The only blacks that I know that ignore the racism against blacks in Chicago are the ones that want to be white, the ones that are naïve, the rich ones( as many of them look down on poor blacks - even if you don't fit certain stereotypes), street gangs, and many black women (due to receiving better treatment than black men).
Some of what you said is right on point.

My life was very much centered around work, living in Hyde Park and going to church for the first 3 years living here. Imo, I didn't have a good overall whole city view of Chicago. Most of the people who I met through social media where transplants outside the midwest. When I would hear people complain about the social issues of the city, I ignored them. That is what I meant by looking at Chicago through rose colored glasses. I didn't see the real thing. When I moved on the other side of town, I saw a city that others described and many deny on cd.

As far as me being one that gets my worth by association with Whites. I don't think that is true. I just let my relationships come natural just as most people. One day I just noticed I didn't have any Whites in my local social circle for the first time.

As far as me looking down my nose at poor Blacks isn't true. I do feel sorry for some because life hasn't been as kind to them nor have they had the opportunity to thrive like me. It is not fair that so many are born into poverty with out a good foundation laid for them.

I am not miserable living in Chicago. I've had some great experiences here. I've learned a lot about the city and how it functions. Probably more than many locals who never leave the block or their side of town.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:10 PM
 
144 posts, read 130,132 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
Some of what you said is right on point.

My life was very much centered around work, living in Hyde Park and going to church for the first 3 years living here. Imo, I didn't have a good overall whole city view of Chicago. Most of the people who I met through social media where transplants outside the midwest. When I would hear people complain about the social issues of the city, I ignored them. That is what I meant by looking at Chicago through rose colored glasses. I didn't see the real thing. When I moved on the other side of town, I saw a city that others described and many deny on cd.

As far as me being one that gets my worth by association with Whites. I don't think that is true. I just let my relationships come natural just as most people. One day I just noticed I didn't have any Whites in my local social circle for the first time.

As far as me looking down my nose at poor Blacks isn't true. I do feel sorry for some because life hasn't been as kind to them nor have they had the opportunity to thrive like me. It is not fair that so many are born into poverty with out a good foundation laid for them.

I am not miserable living in Chicago. I've had some great experiences here. I've learned a lot about the city and how it functions. Probably more than many locals who never leave the block or their side of town.
I never posted you looked down on blacks, I stated many rich and successful blacks do.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:15 PM
 
6,118 posts, read 7,160,706 times
Reputation: 4886
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT445 View Post
I never posted you looked down on blacks, I stated many rich and successful blacks do.
Got you. I'm a little tired.
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:00 AM
 
Location: Chi-City
79 posts, read 128,323 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydlee View Post
I wanted to think a bit before responding. I'm not from Chicago, but DH and I are seriously considering a move there. But we're still not sure. For the last year, I've been watching the job listings, keeping tabs on the tech sector (where we come from), watching housing prices, reading up on politics, taxes, the pension situation, reading city-data etc. We have roots in tech startups, but we are probably older than most of the young whippersnappers talked about in the news these days. Assuming we can be considered "talent," I figured this question is something I can address:



Chicago is attractive for many reasons. The city is beautiful. It seems cosmopolitan, all things considered. Train infrastructure is priceless -- and I mean that. DH, who is from the Midwest, says summertime is wonderful. All the attractions/amenities: Navy Pier, that bean thing park you guys have (yes, I am going to be one of those people who visit the bean and take a photo of myself in front of it when I visit this year), your theater and music scene, your new bike lanes and bike share program, that chocolate bridge I've heard about, etc. These are all very cool things, but it's the overall message that these things put together send: Chicago is alive. Chicago is a city that invests in itself and has an eye on the future. Chicago is a city that moves -- and is moving forward.

(Or maybe I've read one too many Rahm Emanuel press releases.) ;-)

Your city is a bit expensive in terms of home prices considering the poor reputation of the school district, but it's still relatively affordable compared to comparable areas of Los Angeles and the San Francisco Bay Area (includes Silicon Valley). Your suburbs are clearly an excellent deal when it comes to attractive, affordable housing and well-regarded school districts. All this is true, even with higher property taxes (so far).

Your economy seems, relatively speaking, diversified. You are no one/two-horse town the way Los Angeles has become and the way Silicon Valley is; by this, I mean you have quite a few big companies located there. That's extremely encouraging.

San Francisco, which lies north of the Silicon Valley (and Los Angeles, too) has seen plenty of companies leave over the years. It hasn't been fun. Simply put, it's become too expensive for them to operate, to recruit people due to housing costs, high cost of living, etc. If you're a young, single tech person, moving isn't so hard. You can get a roommate and rent. Your standard of living may not be that different from what you had before. But recruiting a person with a family is much more difficult. They may be living in their own home in a decent neighborhood with decent schools for their kids. Why would they want to downgrade their life to move to the Silicon Valley? Even for single people, eventually some want to get married, maybe have kids, maybe own a house in a safe, "good" school district and with a yard for the kids to play in. I'm not talking McMansion here, just talking modest home with a yard that doesn't share walls or floors/ceilings so the neighbors don't go ballistic every time your kid runs across the room.

Chicago wins in terms of affordability. Sure it's not super cheap, but it's nowhere near the cost of San Francisco and L.A.

I've been watching Chicago's tech jobs. While not trying to talk badly about anyone's tech companies (for truly, I found your tech scene encouraging), I must admit all the press seems to show are companies located in these painfully hip, minimalist offices where tables and people sparsely populate the room. Look at the job listings and there seems to be a great emphasis on the trappings of a startup: free food, foosball tables, sofas, free yoga. This actually discourages me. Real startups, from my limited experience, are started in low cost offices that look like this: folding tables, computers crammed onto them, chairs, whiteboards, a crowded situation -- and that's pretty much it. There was a time when you'd cram everyone and their computer into hallways, even the janitorial closet, in an effort to keep costs down. LOL In all fairness, it's not just Chicago; it's SF, NY, and other startups, too. Why are startups spending so much money on hip furniture and generous square footage? I can see how they might do this if they've already "made" it, but then they wouldn't really be a startup. Frankly, I'm not sure DH and I would be a good fit if this the kind of scene it is today. But that's just us.

In the end, I think Chicago has what it takes to attract and keep talent. You've got a vibrant, urban scene with nightlife and reasonable rent that will attract young people. You've got affordable single family homes with good schools in suburbs that are well connected by reliable public transit. OK, the winters sound challenging, but in the end, it's going to be affordable housing with good schools within close proximity to a diversified job base of well-paying jobs. I'm concerned about the seriousness of the tech scene, property taxes, CPS quality, and the pension situation (and the possibility of living in a city with mosquitoes, but that last part is just me LOL), but that's about it, really.

My take is just that -- my own perspective, and others will have a decidedly different take. That's cool.
Well said.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sydlee again".
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
555 posts, read 707,922 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
Yeah, I definitely agree with you about start ups, and especially how they're portrayed/portray themselves in Chicago. I think it's a combination of reporters for places like Crain's or the Trib who really don't have a good understanding of start ups and companies trying to one up Groupon.

In truth start ups make up a fairly small part of Chicago's tech job sector. Large established companies like United, Aon, CBOT, various ad agencies, and financial firms account for many more tech jobs than start ups, and they are much more traditional in their office layouts and perks. Some of the pure tech companies (Orbitz, Morningstar, Google, Textura, Razorfish, etc.) have a bit of the "hip" thing going on, but not nearly as much as is depicted in business reporting.

I wouldn't worry about mosquitos too much, I don't think I've ever been bitten by one in the city and I spend a lot of time outside.
And here I thought Crain's knew their stuff. Hmm. Thanks for the info re: established companies vs startups. Good to know.

As for mosquitoes, I sure hope you're right. I got some really insightful feedback from here when I asked about mosquitoes. From what I can tell, it sounds like suburbs are mosquito central during the summer -- a real shame, since they do seem a better overall deal in terms of housing and school districts (though less so when it comes to easy access to city amenities). My reading on mosquitoes within the City of Chicago itself, though, is mixed. Folks can't seem to agree. This appears to be due to micro-area differences in the terrain, drainage issues, etc. Looking forward to my trip out there this spring. Not looking forward to a possible trip in the summer, when I'm supposed to just walk around the city and suburbs without any repellent to see how badly I get bitten.

I will bring Benadryl.
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