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Old 02-19-2014, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,165,689 times
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As for "brain drain" issues in the larger sense, Chicago is doing quite well in one of the larger industry shifts in recent years. Most people have no idea of the impact the LEED systems have had. 10 years ago facility people threw up their hands in bewilderment at the idea of sourcing less toxic paints, floor coatings, etc. Now they are the norm. And that's just one small facet of the larger "green building" trend. It extends into landscaping, zoning, public transportation, etc.

USGBC Releases the Top 10 States in Nation for LEED Green Building | U.S. Green Building Council
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:01 AM
 
11,973 posts, read 29,431,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
And what I find bashing-my-head-against-a-wall ironic is I am 100% sure that the yahoos who would tell a gay black man in Lake View it isn't "their neighborhood" aren't Chicago natives. There is no question in my mind they are transplants from incredibly un-diverse parts of the country, and they seethe at the idea of Wrigleyville having to coexist with Boystown.
You keep beating that drum, but in my experience the "native Chicagoans" are far more racist than transplants from Detroit and Cleveland--who are for the most part liberal and educated. In fact, the only flat out aggressive slur-slinging racism I've seen in Chicago has been from minority to minority (like Mexicans yelling at African-Americans), or from eastern European immigrants--all who have a history of neighborhood enclave entrenchment in this city. And those old skin-head gangs that used to roam around Lake View and Uptown... Where do you think those guys were from?
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Chicago
66 posts, read 93,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
This is going to be long, but I had to get my thoughts out there because some of this really bugs me:

Here's the thing - the poor black south side areas are not going to get any better all of a sudden in respect to segregation for many reasons - crime, amenities, etc. The Asian population is creeping into the big hispanic areas like McKinley Park and recently Brighton Park. The best hope for a bad neighborhood becoming better is what is happening in Greater Grand Crossing not far from South Shore and Jackson Park Highlands.

However, this is what gets me. I understand that we all have parts of ourselves that are identified by our races, but after that I think it's incredibly shallow to look at someone who's not the same race and just assume that they won't accept you and won't find anything in common with you. I've been in places around the world where I'm the only non-black and non-Asian person in the middle of thousands of people. I've been to bars in these countries where it's the same thing. Hell, I've been to south side suburbs where I was one of 3 non-black persons at an establishment. Did I say "huh? I'm the only ____ person here." Yes, but after that it stops because if there's anything I've learned around the world, it's that people no matter where they are from, have the same basic needs and wants. It's easy as hell to relate to people if you aren't shallow and I have had 0 problems anywhere in the US or world relating to people even when I'm the one in the deep minority. Even amongst people I have encountered that are racists, I have been able to talk to them and relate on some human level where they eventually put down their racist tendencies and start seeing a human as a human, and not sub human.

Here's my observations since moving here and this is as a non-black person, but also as someone who loves to observe human nature in any setting. First of all, I think that there are a few groups that can bring about change in migration.

1) Hipsters. They tend to be part of pre gentrification in many areas. Their migration follows an easy pattern of being close to other hip areas. For example, hipsters may inhabit Hermosa because it's next to Logan Square, but offers cheap rent. They are not going to Montclare because it's too far away from their hipster meccas.

2) Artists. They may form in little areas anywhere in a city but their effects are small. The exception to the rule may be what Theaster Gates is doing in Greater Grand Crossing, which I think is nothing short of amazing.

3) Working class families. They tend to inhabit some areas for sure and bring about a little more integration, but it's not a lot. They tend to follow an almost hipster model and spread out from one area. The example I can think of right now going on in Chicago is Asian families expanding from Chinatown into Bridgeport and now McKinley Park and recently even Canaryville and Brighton Park. You could say this about the far north side with groups of Arabs and Assyrians in some area, Filipinos, etc.

4) "Young professional" transplants. They go where there is stuff to do. This is important because people just assume magically that because Lake View is 80% white, that they aren't open to other peoples. The real fact is how the neighborhood is set up. People are moving to Chicago because they want to live in areas that are safe but also offer that urban experience of being able to walk around to find things to do, eat at, etc. There's a reason why people are not moving to North Lawndale en masse. It has nothing to do with the fact that there's loads of black people there. It has everything to do with the fact that there's gangs there which someone who's making at least $65K/year knows there are other places in town they can live where they don't have to put up with safety concerns. Second to that are the amenities. Usually someone who can't afford to live in a better off neighborhood will follow the hipster trend instead of something else.

Since I live downtown, I can only offer up my experiences in these areas and the other areas in question which people just magically associate with white and "not open minded." First of all, as some of you may know - I am of mixed race. If you compare me to a normal white person with blonde hair, I'd stick out a lot. However, I have NEVER had any racist encounters myself in Chicago in these neighborhoods. I know what racism is - I grew up with it subjected to me and my family and that continued into college for my first two years. I have also never dated someone who is 100% white in Chicago. In fact, even if you count dates I've been on, you'll only find a few white women I've gone on dates with. Almost everybody has been of another race. Yet, I have NEVER had a racist comment subjected at me in Chicago at any point. I have dated two black women since last summer having spent at least 50% of our time downtown, Lincoln Park, or Lakeview. Again, not once have I noticed any weird looks or comments directed at us. The only looks I got were from 60+ year old black women but I wouldn't say they were "wtf?" looks. Other than that, nobody has given a flying **** and has never stopped these girls from not wanting to spend time in the neighborhoods. They often times suggested places to go to in these neighborhoods - not me dragging to them because it's where I live. They sincerely liked the neighborhoods.

The thing I truly believe is that some people are ultra sensitive to their own race and associate any negative or different body language from others with having to do with that person having issues with race. It's just another form of being a cognitive miser, yet so many people seem to do it. When they are in a group where they are the obvious minority, everything is amplified. I've been there before and it's easy to follow into, but logical and critical thinking will make you realize how shallow it really is and how much you're missing.

My friend actually went through this recently. He is of mixed race, partially hispanic. He seems to think that because HE knows he's part Hispanic, that everyone else thinks so too and any different body language in his vicinity MUST be because they are racists. However, he doesn't look like it. He basically looks mixed Italian and European Spanish and looks like a movie star which women go crazy over. He came to me a few weeks ago and opened up how pissed he was that people look at him weirdly. Because race is on his mind, he thinks that MUST be the reason. My attempts to tell him that he doesn't look Hispanic at ALL and all of our mutual friends agreed with that sentiment didn't register with him. I then offered up the revolutionary idea to him that you can't judge what people are doing - everyone has their own **** going on and you have no idea what they're thinking. Unless they straight up tell you why they're looking at you weird, it's utterly pointless and counter productive to guess and assume it's because they're a racist. I have had times walking down the street where my contact has semi come lose while walking, which has caused me to squint when it's cloudy out. There's no doubt in my mind that people would probably think I was thinking "the **** is wrong with you?" at them. However, nothing is further from the truth. My contact was loose, causing me to squint. Other people have bad days and anybody who gets in their way doing anything annoying is going to get a weird look. I've done it before and I'm sure others on here have been in the same boat.

I remember one time in middle school, there was a new student who had just moved from Wisconsin and as we were sitting in class, I noticed him looking at me weirdly. I assumed that because he moved from a small, racially homogeneous town in Wisconsin that he MUST be looking at me weirdly because of my race. I went and told my friend's mom about him that day and saying how he was a racist because he was looking at me weirdly. Well, turns out I made friends with this guy shortly after. I confronted him about it and it had nothing to do with my race. I was doing something weird, which caused him to think "the hell?" It turns out he's one of the most open minded people I've ever met and he's worked for the CIA and State Department in a handful of developing countries where he is the minority and has absolutely zero problem with it.

The point is that people need to stop assuming that everybody else has a problem with them because they're of another race as someone else. Sure, there will be racists out there, but in my experience especially in Chicago, the younger generation on average really does not give two flying ****s what race you are and people need to stop assuming that because you are in a per-dominantly racially homogeneous area for whatever race it is, that people are going to have a problem with you if you aren't like them. It's absolutely not forward thinking and is counter productive to society if we continue to think like this.
I can get behind most of this, which is why I rarely bring race into an issue such as this one. I shared my views as an outsider looking in (I am still relatively new here), but I think that, as with most issues, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I do 100% agree with your migration solutions, especially hipsters. Once a Whole Foods go up--eating healthy is for all, but Whole Foods is notoriously hispter-ish--you know that the gentrification is on.

Also, and this is just my .02... But being black, having a black family, and having friends and associates of all races (Black, White, Chinese, Korean, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Indian, Irish, etc...), I must say that black people are just as racist, if not more racist, than other races. So that definitely plays a role.

To OP, sorry to thread-jack! I'm done with this tangent now.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,165,689 times
Reputation: 2454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
You keep beating that drum, but in my experience the "native Chicagoans" are far more racist than transplants from Detroit and Cleveland--who are for the most part liberal and educated. In fact, the only flat out aggressive slur-slinging racism I've seen in Chicago has been from minority to minority (like Mexicans yelling at African-Americans), or from eastern European immigrants--all who have a history of neighborhood enclave entrenchment in this city. And those old skin-head gangs that used to roam around Lake View and Uptown... Where do you think those guys were from?
The old racist skin gang (CASH) were OUTSIDERS who came to Chicago to stir up crap and to try to recruit young people. They were countered by a group of young Chicagoans who shaved their heads (SHOC) in protest, these were Medusa's kind of people, it was a ridiculously diverse scene. The Chicagoan skinheads I knew were largely black and Latino.

Please read this and learn something.

RA: Medusa's: Chicago's missing link

Read "American Skinhead" (or old Reader archive stories) for more.

And I didn't say all transplants are this or that, but it is 100% clear - and has been for decades - that the gay residents of Lake View have had to deal with slurs and hate from the Big 10 fraternity crowd. I went to UIUC, you aren't going to fool me regarding what that culture entails - while most of them aren't racist/homophobes as individuals, neither do they do anything to stop that problem in their community.

Neighborhood enclaves are what they are - I don't see how the gated fortresses of suburbia are any less vile when it comes to tolerance and inclusion.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:42 AM
 
6,125 posts, read 7,179,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
You keep beating that drum, but in my experience the "native Chicagoans" are far more racist than transplants from Detroit and Cleveland--who are for the most part liberal and educated. In fact, the only flat out aggressive slur-slinging racism I've seen in Chicago has been from minority to minority (like Mexicans yelling at African-Americans), or from eastern European immigrants--all who have a history of neighborhood enclave entrenchment in this city. And those old skin-head gangs that used to roam around Lake View and Uptown... Where do you think those guys were from?
From my experience in any city the transplants are more open minded than the natives.

I hate that I shared my story because it has become a thread about race instead of why the brain drain. I was just telling my story to add to the topic not to hurt anyone's feelings or to derail the conversation.

I do think it is sad that non blacks can't discuss the issue with Chicago Black community with out taking offense when race and the overall Black experience in this city should not be considered when we are a third of the population and are voting with our feet by leaving the city. That is not Ok and represents a huge problem for Chicago.

I AM DONE!!!

Last edited by mjtinmemphis; 02-19-2014 at 11:50 AM..
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,165,689 times
Reputation: 2454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
From my experience in any city the transplants are more open minded than the natives.

I hate that I shared my story because it has become a thread about race instead of why the brain drain. I was just telling my story to add to the topic not to hurt anyone's feelings or to derail the conversation.

I do think it is sad that non blacks can't discuss the issue with Chicago Black community with out taking offense when race and the overall Black experience in this city should not be considered when we are a third of the population and are voting with our feet by leaving the city. That is not Ok and represents a huge problem for Chicago.
Well, are you a Black Chicagoan or a transplant? If you're the former, you would seem to be defining yourself as closed-minded. Or you think black people are somehow mentally different than everyone else. Neither option sounds good from where I'm sitting.

As for the "voting with their feet," you do understand that the demise of tens of thousands of units of public housing is a pretty significant factor, right? For many of these people leaving Chicago, it would be more accurate to say they are getting expelled.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,165,689 times
Reputation: 2454
And the brain drain hypothesis is just that. Topical:

J.B. Pritzker: The Other Mayor of Chicago | Chicago magazine | February 2014

...In addition, Built in Chicago counts 18 local startups that were acquired by other companies in 2013, including eBay’s $800 million acquisition of online and mobile payment processor Braintree and Oracle’s reported $400 million-plus acquisition of cloud computing provider BigMachines. Chicago now has “a record number of startups on track for $100 million-plus exits and billion-dollar IPOs,” says Matt Moog, founder of Built in Chicago.
To grow further, Pritzker says, Chicago’s tech scene badly needs more later-stage financing: big sums that get invested after the riskier early-stage period. These days, lots of Chicago companies need to raise those larger rounds of money, but few local investors can deliver it.

So the brothers recently expanded their focus to such financing—for example, sinking $62 million into SMS Assist, headquartered in River North, which helps large companies outsource facilities maintenance. “This is a great example of the kinds of [business-to-business] companies being developed in the Midwest by people who understand their industries and are applying technology to solve real problems,” Pritzker told Crain’s Chicago Business in October.

That same month, he made his debut as chair of ChicagoNEXT. “He has a passion for [tech],” says Rahm Emanuel, explaining why he tapped Pritzker for the job. “He was there at the beginning, trying to push those concepts and ideas when there was no such thing as a technology scene in Chicago, but instead a lot of people at a coffee shop thinking about what we needed to do to create a culture and environment.”

As far as fans like Larry Levy are concerned, Pritzker has already succeeded. “He transformed the tech culture, the startup culture,” Levy says. “He made people think that we [Chicagoans] can compete with anyone.”
In addition, Built in Chicago counts 18 local startups that were acquired by other companies in 2013, including eBay’s $800 million acquisition of online and mobile payment processor Braintree and Oracle’s reported $400 million-plus acquisition of cloud computing provider BigMachines. Chicago now has “a record number of startups on track for $100 million-plus exits and billion-dollar IPOs,” says Matt Moog, founder of Built in Chicago.
To grow further, Pritzker says, Chicago’s tech scene badly needs more later-stage financing: big sums that get invested after the riskier early-stage period. These days, lots of Chicago companies need to raise those larger rounds of money, but few local investors can deliver it.
So the brothers recently expanded their focus to such financing—for example, sinking $62 million into SMS Assist, headquartered in River North, which helps large companies outsource facilities maintenance. “This is a great example of the kinds of [business-to-business] companies being developed in the Midwest by people who understand their industries and are applying technology to solve real problems,” Pritzker told Crain’s Chicago Business in October.
That same month, he made his debut as chair of ChicagoNEXT. “He has a passion for [tech],” says Rahm Emanuel, explaining why he tapped Pritzker for the job. “He was there at the beginning, trying to push those concepts and ideas when there was no such thing as a technology scene in Chicago, but instead a lot of people at a coffee shop thinking about what we needed to do to create a culture and environment.”
As far as fans like Larry Levy are concerned, Pritzker has already succeeded. “He transformed the tech culture, the startup culture,” Levy says. “He made people think that we [Chicagoans] can compete with anyone.”
In addition, Built in Chicago counts 18 local startups that were acquired by other companies in 2013, including eBay’s $800 million acquisition of online and mobile payment processor Braintree and Oracle’s reported $400 million-plus acquisition of cloud computing provider BigMachines. Chicago now has “a record number of startups on track for $100 million-plus exits and billion-dollar IPOs,” says Matt Moog, founder of Built in Chicago.
To grow further, Pritzker says, Chicago’s tech scene badly needs more later-stage financing: big sums that get invested after the riskier early-stage period. These days, lots of Chicago companies need to raise those larger rounds of money, but few local investors can deliver it.
So the brothers recently expanded their focus to such financing—for example, sinking $62 million into SMS Assist, headquartered in River North, which helps large companies outsource facilities maintenance. “This is a great example of the kinds of [business-to-business] companies being developed in the Midwest by people who understand their industries and are applying technology to solve real problems,” Pritzker told Crain’s Chicago Business in October.
That same month, he made his debut as chair of ChicagoNEXT. “He has a passion for [tech],” says Rahm Emanuel, explaining why he tapped Pritzker for the job. “He was there at the beginning, trying to push those concepts and ideas when there was no such thing as a technology scene in Chicago, but instead a lot of people at a coffee shop thinking about what we needed to do to create a culture and environment.”
As far as fans like Larry Levy are concerned, Pritzker has already succeeded. “He transformed the tech culture, the startup culture,” Levy says. “He made people think that we [Chicagoans] can compete with anyone.”
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:00 PM
 
8,279 posts, read 10,666,642 times
Reputation: 10016
The OP is just a little disgruntled..maybe more than just a little..

What is this incessent need to be #1 in everything, anyway? SF is bound and determined to be the top dog in high-tech ( also seemingly determined to compete for the title of "America's Most Expensive City"); NYC is generally regarded as being tops in Finance and Culture ( museums, Broadway, fashion, etc), and DC will forever be America's Political Capitol ( along with center of federal employment). Why can't Chicago continue on the path it's always been on--being a little of everything, and "quite a bit" in some categories?

Nothing wrong with being "well-rounded"----just ask Detroit...
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,303 posts, read 81,273,105 times
Reputation: 55458
brain drain is a good code word. they used to say white flight but now lots of black professionals also flee crime and urban blight. the elephant in the living room is tolerance only goes so far and then you must deal with lawlessness. if you dont you will end up like detroit memphis and new orleans.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:22 PM
 
11,973 posts, read 29,431,265 times
Reputation: 4608
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
What is this incessent need to be #1 in everything, anyway?
I don't know. America has 3.8 million square miles of space, hundreds of large cities, and not every person wants to live in a coastal metropolis. Talk to most New Yorkers and San Franciscans, and they understand the real compromises that must be made to live there. We have a different set of compromises in Chicago.
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