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[font="]Those with money (a relative term, but for my argument, anyone making $500K/yr), will almost always choose to drive...
That's a high bar for having enough money to own and drive a car in the city. A lot of people would say they "have money" if they're making $100,000. $500,000 is approaching chauffeured-limousine territory.
Agreed. When you take out the car payment, insurance, gas, and maintenance, that does free up a considerable amount of $$. But to your other topic, does he think that a less than $300-350k condo is not doable in Chicago? Or does he have more stringent standards?
Standards. Unwilling to look out of the LP, WP, LV, type areas.
That's a high bar for having enough money to own and drive a car in the city. A lot of people would say they "have money" if they're making $100,000. $500,000 is approaching chauffeured-limousine territory.
I think you are overestimating how far $500K will get you, but regardless, that isn't the point. Whatever the "I have money" amount is, the majority of that group will choose to drive in Chicago, it is an added expense but the city is much easier to navigate by car.
To me, it comes back to accommodation, why does this city have such ridiculous parking requirements? It seems like every highrise going up has some huge parking podium or Alderman are asking for more parking of developers, it seems we are at the point of 1:1 parking to unit ratio on new construction, which is crazy.
My main point is the city is being greatly altered to accommodate cars. Granted I am not an expert on all the new development going on in this city, but I have yet to see a new highrise that doesn't have a large parking podium, or ~150-200ft lot width.
I think you are overestimating how far $500K will get you, but regardless, that isn't the point. Whatever the "I have money" amount is, the majority of that group will choose to drive in Chicago, it is an added expense but the city is much easier to navigate by car.
To me, it comes back to accommodation, why does this city have such ridiculous parking requirements? It seems like every highrise going up has some huge parking podium or Alderman are asking for more parking of developers, it seems we are at the point of 1:1 parking to unit ratio on new construction, which is crazy.
My main point is the city is being greatly altered to accommodate cars. Granted I am not an expert on all the new development going on in this city, but I have yet to see a new highrise that doesn't have a large parking podium, or ~150-200ft lot width.
It's all relative where you live. I make $100K on the north side with no credit card, student loan or any other kind of debt and pay $1,100 for my nice one bedroom condo. I could EASILY make car payments each month but absolutely don't even think about it. I haven't had a car in 10 years and I have no intention of buying one as long as I'm working downtown and living on the north side where there's great transit.
Like I said, making a lot of money means you can afford a car (how many people make over $500,000? They'll have anything they like), but it's not like people who can afford it will automatically buy it in Chicago. A vast majority of my friends don't own cars and we don't even think about it. We're all professionals in the loop in our mid 30's who make between $60,000 and $130,000 a year.
For much of the city it would be terrible to not have a car. For me and my friends it's quite liberating most of the time. Every time I rent a car to go back to Iowa I always figure I'll use it to run errands or go around Chicago when I get back, but every single time I just park it on the street and can't wait for it to go away the next morning. It's just an obligation. I thought I would hate not having a car, but I didn't think about what a release it would be not to have to ever worry about it. Driving drunk, traffic, parking, tickets, gas, insurance, break downs.
It's all relative where you live. I make $100K on the north side with no credit card, student loan or any other kind of debt and pay $1,100 for my nice one bedroom condo. I could EASILY make car payments each month but absolutely don't even think about it. I haven't had a car in 10 years and I have no intention of buying one as long as I'm working downtown and living on the north side where there's great transit.
Like I said, making a lot of money means you can afford a car (how many people make over $500,000? They'll have anything they like), but it's not like people who can afford it will automatically buy it in Chicago. A vast majority of my friends don't own cars and we don't even think about it. We're all professionals in the loop in our mid 30's who make between $60,000 and $130,000 a year.
For much of the city it would be terrible to not have a car. For me and my friends it's quite liberating most of the time. Every time I rent a car to go back to Iowa I always figure I'll use it to run errands or go around Chicago when I get back, but every single time I just park it on the street and can't wait for it to go away the next morning. It's just an obligation. I thought I would hate not having a car, but I didn't think about what a release it would be not to have to ever worry about it. Driving drunk, traffic, parking, tickets, gas, insurance, break downs.
I never had a car in Chicago until kids. That was about 10 years without a car.
It's all relative where you live. I make $100K on the north side with no credit card, student loan or any other kind of debt and pay $1,100 for my nice one bedroom condo. I could EASILY make car payments each month but absolutely don't even think about it. I haven't had a car in 10 years and I have no intention of buying one as long as I'm working downtown and living on the north side where there's great transit.
Like I said, making a lot of money means you can afford a car (how many people make over $500,000? They'll have anything they like), but it's not like people who can afford it will automatically buy it in Chicago. A vast majority of my friends don't own cars and we don't even think about it. We're all professionals in the loop in our mid 30's who make between $60,000 and $130,000 a year.
For much of the city it would be terrible to not have a car. For me and my friends it's quite liberating most of the time. Every time I rent a car to go back to Iowa I always figure I'll use it to run errands or go around Chicago when I get back, but every single time I just park it on the street and can't wait for it to go away the next morning. It's just an obligation. I thought I would hate not having a car, but I didn't think about what a release it would be not to have to ever worry about it. Driving drunk, traffic, parking, tickets, gas, insurance, break downs.
Traffic, parking, tickets, gas, insurance, break downs are all pretty inevitable when you own a car, but you can choose not to drive drunk.
It's all relative where you live. I make $100K on the north side with no credit card, student loan or any other kind of debt and pay $1,100 for my nice one bedroom condo. I could EASILY make car payments each month but absolutely don't even think about it. I haven't had a car in 10 years and I have no intention of buying one as long as I'm working downtown and living on the north side where there's great transit.
Like I said, making a lot of money means you can afford a car (how many people make over $500,000? They'll have anything they like), but it's not like people who can afford it will automatically buy it in Chicago. A vast majority of my friends don't own cars and we don't even think about it. We're all professionals in the loop in our mid 30's who make between $60,000 and $130,000 a year.
For much of the city it would be terrible to not have a car. For me and my friends it's quite liberating most of the time. Every time I rent a car to go back to Iowa I always figure I'll use it to run errands or go around Chicago when I get back, but every single time I just park it on the street and can't wait for it to go away the next morning. It's just an obligation. I thought I would hate not having a car, but I didn't think about what a release it would be not to have to ever worry about it. Driving drunk, traffic, parking, tickets, gas, insurance, break downs.
I don't disagree with any of this, I lived many many years without a car in New York, mainly because it is damn near impossible to own a car in Manhattan. I bought a car when I moved to Chicago, because I found the Chicago lifestyle I wanted to live to be easier with a car.
The larger point is that regardless of who is car free or not, the city (developers) are accommodating the car in spades with virtually all new development. In my opinion, the street-scape of areas like River North, the West Loop, south loop, loop are becoming overrun by parking garages, curb cuts, and buildings with huge footprints becuase of parking minimums. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I very much dislike most of the new construction going up in the city.
Here is my take on the "$700,000 condo question"...
Assume a typical I.T. worker in the Loop... a systems admin with 15 years experience; making roughly $100,000 a year, and he is dating a 29-year old CPA who also works in the Loop and is making $100,000 a year. They get married, and their combined income is $200,000 a year.
Typically, a conservative, safe mortgage qualification rule of thumb, was that a bank would loan you whatever 3x your total household income...so 200,000 x 3 = $600,000.
Now, a typical married couple making $200,000/yr total, probably has around a $100,000 in the bank saved up. This means they can find a new condo, settle on the purchase price at $700,000, put a down payment of $100,000 and finance the rest ($600,000).
So now, the guy with a "measly" $100,000/yr income, is suddenly able to buy a nice place, when he gets married.
Most people (even multi-millionaires)do not buy real estate with cash, they finance the deal with a mortgage (that they can safely swing) and then invest the rest of the cash for future retirement purposes.
We all have heard, there are really "Two Chicagos"...Global Chicago, and poverty-stricken, post-industrial midwest Chicago. The people who are in the "global" part, are prospering very nicely, while those who remain trapped in the poverty-stricken aspect of this city, are foundering. Its all about having marketable skills...and the drive, passion, talent, and IQ to get those skills.
Outside of Chicago, even in booming areas like California or Texas, this still holds true...there is a divergence taking place...those with hard-science and quant skills, such as engineering, finance, etc are BOOMING; those with worthless "liberal arts" degrees are going no where and sinking fast.
Also - about housing in this city - I do agree that there is a real estate boom taking place, and although I want this to continue, a lot of the construction is taking place in the already-gentrified "hot" areas.
What I would like to see, is more blighted areas in the west and south, totally torn down, and have big builders like Toll Brothers come in and build really good SFH's in those areas. The idea would be, instead of Toll Brother buying a huge plot of land out in some distant suburb, and having a corny cul-de-sac based subdivison, the "subdivison" would be built in the city limits, on a recently-torn down block of land, that conforms to the city grid, city infrastructure, and public transit (El trains and BRT lines). Tear out the dilapidated crap one block at a time, and replace it with SFH's that have compact lots, with the front door up close to the sidewalk. There would not be any front yard (or maybe 5x10 sq ft front yards), and their would be rear alley-access based garages...but build THOUSANDS of these homes, across hundreds and hundreds of blocks...so that middle class families have the ability to build/buy new homes in the city, that are roughly $350,000 - $450,000 each, that are dense, walkable, close to public transit....build the homes close enough so that you can walk a few blocks to a major street to get groceries, etc. There can still be enough room for one or two cars per house, but instead of having a wasteful front and back yard per house, there would instead be a "central" park, close enough to each block, where kids and families could hang out and play.
Also - I dont want the houses to look like the typical suburban crap - the builder would offer floor plans that are "Chicagoan" in nature. A good example of what I would like to see, would be houses like the one on the NE corner of Ashland and Wrightwood (look on Google Street View to see what I am talking about).
This can be EASILY done, there is PLENTY of land in Chicago. This would attract the middle-class back into Chicago, from the burbs.
My vision would be that 20-somethings live in places like the hot north side hoods, then when they start looking to get married, they do so and can then buy a house in a south or west side "neighborhood/subdivison" that is still dense, urban, and walkable, but still family-friendly.
There are already very small pockets of these types of developments in the city, but they need to be rolled out everywhere.
I know, the reason this hasnt already been implemented, is because of the schools. The answer to this, is to dissolve the existing school system, and have every neighborhood have its own school system. Kids could walk to school to their own neighborhood school.
I don't disagree with any of this, I lived many many years without a car in New York, mainly because it is damn near impossible to own a car in Manhattan. I bought a car when I moved to Chicago, because I found the Chicago lifestyle I wanted to live to be easier with a car.
The larger point is that regardless of who is car free or not, the city (developers) are accommodating the car in spades with virtually all new development. In my opinion, the street-scape of areas like River North, the West Loop, south loop, loop are becoming overrun by parking garages, curb cuts, and buildings with huge footprints becuase of parking minimums. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I very much dislike most of the new construction going up in the city.
That's zoning law and parking mins more often than not. The buildings and streets the majority of us love the most in Chicago would be illegal to build today.
Its worth paying attention to public meetings for new development and write your alderman so they hear from more people than the dip****s that whine about traffic and parking with every new development, only to end up increasing traffic/parking issues because automobiles are so over compensated in our buildings and infrastructure.
Last edited by jdiddy; 02-26-2014 at 09:17 PM..
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