Marquette Park

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I think there's truth in what he says to some degree but to simply "blame whitey" really leads to ignorance regarding the fundamental aspects of what's wrong. Unfortunately, that has been the status quo since the 1960s, when realtors and businesses were pretty much solely blamed for the deterioration of certain of the City's neighborhoods. We have advanced a little, but we still have a ways to go.

Fundamentally, human nature isn't always good. The questions are what can we do to bring out the good and minimize the bad.

Some crimes and some people are just
beyond society's ability to prevent or cure.

For example, this recent tragedy:

http://www.suntimes.com/7788830-417/...an-square.html

Here you have a full-grown man assaulting a 14 year old with a bat. That's utterly beyond the pale. This is one cowardly sociopathic bully who was hell-bent on making other people's lives miserable, regardless of the larger issue of gangs, the number of cops on the street, etc.

And this sad human being, assuming he's guilty, leaves behind a pregnant woman carrying his child. It's not much of a stretch to guess that this cycle of violence is likely to extend at least one more generation.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Fundamentally, human nature isn't always good. The questions are what can we do to bring out the good and minimize the bad.

Some crimes and some people are just
beyond society's ability to prevent or cure.

Disagree with this. It's interesting how "human nature" in Chicago for example seems to change depending on what area you're in, huh? Humans seem to act differently in Englewood as opposed to Beverly.

I definitely agree that no one would want to pay for or take the very difficult steps needed to prevent or cure it. And 'round and 'round we go.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Disagree with this. It's interesting how "human nature" in Chicago for example seems to change depending on what area you're in, huh? Humans seem to act differently in Englewood as opposed to Beverly.

I definitely agree that no one would want to pay for or take the very difficult steps needed to prevent or cure it. And 'round and 'round we go.

Disagree with what, exactly?

Logan Square isn't Englewood. My point was just that while some violent acts are somewhat related to need (usually debatable), some just are not.

Maybe the better question is why is there such a strong correlation between poverty and violent crime, or if that's really even the proper correlation at all.

I knew loads of broke-ass people growing up, but none of them would have ever thought to go and wail on someone with a bat to make a buck.

[BRU67]

I disagree with you seemingly explaining away bad behavior as simple human nature. It's an argument along the same lines as "crime happens everywhere."

And yes, there is a strong correlation between poverty and violent crime. And yes, it's definitely the proper correlation to examine.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I disagree with you seemingly explaining away bad behavior as simple human nature. It's an argument along the same lines as "crime happens everywhere."

And yes, there is a strong correlation between poverty and violent crime. And yes, it's definitely the proper correlation to examine.

I think you don't understanding my point at all.

That 19 year old idiot didn't mug the 14 year old for his money. He was driving around drinking booze with his buddies - gas and booze cost money, so we can extrapolate he wasn't exactly starving either.

Economic poverty does not explain what we see with the "worst of the worst" in street gang culture. It's more a case of (non-denominational) spiritual poverty IMO. I believe in the separation of church and state, but we need to rethink the idea that schools shouldn't be a place to hammer home some basic ethics and codes of decency.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

I think you don't understanding my point at all.

That 19 year old idiot didn't mug the 14 year old for his money. He was driving around drinking booze with his buddies - gas and booze cost money, so we can extrapolate he wasn't exactly starving either.

Economic poverty does not explain what we see with the "worst of the worst" in street gang culture. It's more a case of (non-denominational) spiritual poverty IMO. I believe in the separation of church and state, but we need to rethink the idea that schools shouldn't be a place to hammer home some basic ethics and codes of decency.

We agree on the last point , though instilling value for education in certain communities will be a critical thing. That does not exist in a lot of instances...

West Side charter school students say they're harassed by gangs - chicagotribune.com

There is a lot of interesting information between the lines of this story if you stop and think about it.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by BRU67

We agree on the last point , though instilling value for education in certain communities will be a critical thing. That does not exist in a lot of instances...

West Side charter school students say they're harassed by gangs - chicagotribune.com

There is a lot of interesting information between the lines of this story if you stop and think about it.

Yeah - it's really astonishingly pitiful how the people who have *chosen* to drop out of society and into the street gang life also seem to feel a need to pick on people choosing a more productive path.

[laflin_st]

This has been very interesting to me. My grandmother worked at Frank's on the 2nd floor in the millinary (ladies hats) department. I remember visiting her there when I was a young child. Also Widen's Bakery near 79th and Bishop? My dad was raised in the neighborhood and went to Cook Elementary School and Calumet High. For my first major league ball game my dad took me on the Wentworth Ave streetcar to Comiskey Park just before the streecars were taken out of service in the late 50s. I used to play on Laflin St. near 81st St when I spent time at my grandparents home there.

[firebird057]

Does anyone remember the name of the candy store in chicago Marquette area location about 67th S troy you had to go down a few steps in the 60's & 70's

[Oldendaychick]

Realtors would call people incessantly in the 1960's--the days when you always picked up the phone & calls weren't screened or blocked. They were a nuisance & I'm sure intimidated many people as those were the days more people went with the flow & were scared of what was happening in their neighborhood--not that people aren't scared now but people were more like in shock about things in the old days. My Grandmother who came here to America looking for a better life would be highly upset from the realtors calls--they would be rude & persistent to the point of harassment which is against the law today & to a Senior Citizen to boot. The realtors clearly took the opportunity to make money at the misfortune of the circumstances.