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Old 07-07-2014, 04:29 PM
 
1,517 posts, read 2,341,904 times
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Found this buried in the headlines among all the stories of violence from the weekend. Maybe we need more guns in Chicago? Possible mass killing averted this weekend by concealed carrier:

Authorities: Military member with concealed carry permit shoots attacker - chicagotribune.com
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:33 PM
 
1,517 posts, read 2,341,904 times
Reputation: 573
This is also alarming:
Environmental Study Finds Air In Chicago Now 75% Bullets | America's Finest News Source
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,323 posts, read 23,905,668 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Found this buried in the headlines among all the stories of violence from the weekend. Maybe we need more guns in Chicago? Possible mass killing averted this weekend by concealed carrier:

Authorities: Military member with concealed carry permit shoots attacker - chicagotribune.com
Good - West Pullman is not a very good neighborhood right now. It might be good if some residents in the worse neighborhoods had it. A resident of those areas will have more of a chance to use it than some guy in Lincoln Park carrying around a gun.
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,323 posts, read 23,905,668 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCrest182 View Post
Austin also has 40k more people than RP.
HA HA HA. This is exactly why I put the raw numbers instead of rates, because you claimed in numerous posts how you think that rates and per capita numbers are useless. I'm playing your game, and now that it looks like you're wrong yet again and you can't stand the fact that other areas are even much worse than Rogers Park, you brought up a point about population right here essentially contradicting what you were talking about before. A shooting is a shooting, just like you said...a homicide is a homicide. So again -- Austin: 109 shootings, RP: 22. Austin per 100k shooting rate: 110.64. RP per 100k shooting rate: 40.01


Quote:
Originally Posted by CCrest182 View Post
I don't find per capita stuff to be useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCrest182 View Post
Oh, also to add many crimes aren't even committed by city residents. There have been numerous reports of crime IN Chicago, but from non city residents. Just one of the many reason per capita is completely pointless.

Last edited by marothisu; 07-07-2014 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago
66 posts, read 103,914 times
Reputation: 83
I've read through this whole thread. And I agree with alot that has been said.

However, it doesn't change the fact that 82 HUMAN BEINGS were shot and 14 KILLED. Those are real lives man. If they were all in gangs, then I would probably feel different. But two women were shot in front of their house. Innocent people died or have life-altering injuries now. THAT'S the issue. This has to change.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,323 posts, read 23,905,668 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillers View Post
However, it doesn't change the fact that 82 HUMAN BEINGS were shot and 14 KILLED. Those are real lives man. If they were all in gangs, then I would probably feel different. But two women were shot in front of their house. Innocent people died or have life-altering injuries now. THAT'S the issue. This has to change.
Agreed - it completely sucks and I wish the July 4th week/weekend wasn't a big spike in crime right now.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,752 posts, read 2,401,952 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Found this buried in the headlines among all the stories of violence from the weekend. Maybe we need more guns in Chicago? Possible mass killing averted this weekend by concealed carrier:

Authorities: Military member with concealed carry permit shoots attacker - chicagotribune.com
I saw that too. I actually saw that on Yahoo.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,752 posts, read 2,401,952 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
HA HA HA. This is exactly why I put the raw numbers instead of rates, because you claimed in numerous posts how you think that rates and per capita numbers are useless. I'm playing your game, and now that it looks like you're wrong yet again and you can't stand the fact that other areas are even much worse than Rogers Park, you brought up a point about population right here essentially contradicting what you were talking about before. A shooting is a shooting, just like you said...a homicide is a homicide. So again -- Austin: 109 shootings, RP: 22. Austin per 100k shooting rate: 110.64. RP per 100k shooting rate: 40.01
Funny, I was about to call you out on that. It's not the same either, both neighborhoods for the most part are ghettos, crime ridden, and have similar cases in which they have huge houses that had so much potential, that are now boarded up and in decline. It's not the same as comparing a nationally known small populated city (St Louis) to an internationally known metropolis (Chicago). I believe crime numbers both overall and rate are both poor judgements of massive cities.

... Okay... so you originally proclaim that rates are useful and they are "oh so holy" in determining if a city is "safe" or not, but yet now you're using flat numbers? Which is it? Roger's Park's per capita rate is probably only a bit lower than Austin crime rate. But flat out, yes, Austin is worse. Now, both numbers have high rates and overall #'s, so what's the point in debating "which piece of crap is better than this piece of crap".

Also, the reason I used RP's per capita is because you added up all of the population of every other "bad" neighborhood and then used that, so that's why I said it has half of Austin's pop. Doesn't change my views on per capita.

Last edited by CCrest182; 07-07-2014 at 05:31 PM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,752 posts, read 2,401,952 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillers View Post
I've read through this whole thread. And I agree with alot that has been said.

However, it doesn't change the fact that 82 HUMAN BEINGS were shot and 14 KILLED. Those are real lives man. If they were all in gangs, then I would probably feel different. But two women were shot in front of their house. Innocent people died or have life-altering injuries now. THAT'S the issue. This has to change.

That's true. But yet we have "white knights" trying to use hypothetical instances, like "if St Louis was as big as Chicago, it would be worse", instead of focusing on the fact that more people die in Chicago in REAL LIFE, NOT HYPOTHETICALLY, than in Iraq (hence, "Chiraq") and St Louis, Detroit, etc.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,323 posts, read 23,905,668 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCrest182 View Post
Funny, I was about to call you out on that. It's not the same either, both neighborhoods for the most part are ghettos, crime ridden, and have similar cases in which they have huge houses that had so much potential, that are now boarded up and in decline. It's not the same as comparing a nationally known small populated city (St Louis) to an internationally known metropolis (Chicago). I believe crime numbers both overall and rate are both poor judgements of massive cities.

... Okay... so you originally proclaim that rates are useful and they are "oh so holy" in determining if a city is "safe" or not, but yet now you're using flat numbers? Which is it? Roger's Park's per capita rate is probably only a bit lower than Austin crime rate. But flat out, yes, Austin is worse. Now, both numbers have high rates and overall #'s, so what's the point in debating "which piece of crap is better than this piece of crap".
Dude, do you seriously ever read? I just explained it to you - I used raw numbers to see what you'd say and how you'd react. You played right into my ****ing game of contradicting yourself just as I thought. As someone with an actual real life degree in something deeply founded on math (also - I have a minor in Math), who does it for a living and actually gets paid a lot of money to do this, I'd never use a raw number for something like this over a rate. This should be evident from every single post of mine explaining it and giving you **** for not using rates. Nice try putting it on me though.

And in the end - no matter how you dice it, raw numbers or any kind of rates, RP is not worse than Austin with shootings (or homicides) even if it has 40,000 more people.
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