Diversity in Chicagoland (Lincoln, Madison, Irving: apartments, homes, dorms)

[holl1ngsworth]

There has been much discussion on whether this or that neighborhood is racially "diverse." A lot of it is simple banter, but some of it is quite a bit more charged, bordering on attack.

I'm interested to know what demographics make a neighborhood racially "diverse." At what point is a place perfectly diverse? Does a neighborhood in Chicago become perfectly diverse when it's demographics exactly mirror those of the greater City of Chicago? Or does it need to match our national demographics?

For reference:

Chicago
White alone - 31.8%
Black alone - 31.5%
Hispanic - 29.0%
Asian alone - 5.9%

US National
White alone - 63.7 %
Black alone - 12.2 %
Hispanic - 16.4 %
Asian alone - 4.8 %

I get a little confused when someone says that Logan Square (70% Hispanic) is diverse, but then says that North Center (70% White) is not diverse. Certainly they are both the same distance from "true" diversity, in terms of the City of Chicago, right? Or perhaps North Center should be considered more diverse because it's closer to the US averages?

Thanks ahead of time for your help on this one.

[LeotheOrangeCat]

Chicago's diverse. Just not all in one place at the same time.

[mjtinmemphis]

There is no way every neighborhood in Chicago or any other city will match the demographics of the city. Nationally is more reasonable.

What also matters is the experience of the minority in a particular neighborhood when visiting and or living can make the difference. I've lived in all white neighborhoods and didn't have any issues. I've also lived in areas like Lakeview and was a total nightmare. It depends on the city and the people and how they deal with diversity.

As an African American, I would never live in a neighborhood less than 10% African American in a city like Chicago. Where as a neighborhood in Phoenix or Denver with under 10% would be an option due to the nature of the city.

[marothisu]

I made a map from the 2010 census data about diversity by census tract. It basically takes the 5 major groups and gives the average percentage of each away from 20% (100 divided 5 ways evenly). The greener something is, the more mixed it is and the redder something is, the less mixed it is. Brown-ish is about in the middle. The most diverse parts of town are up north in West Ridge, Albany Park, Uptown, etc but also in pockets in areas like Pullman, Bridgeport, one area of Bronzeville, etc

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/...l-8QQ#map:id=4

[chet everett]

I suspect the only "diverse" parts of some areas are in fact statistical anomalies -- for instance the IIT dorms in Bronzeville, a nursing home or retirement apartments in Pullman...

It is somewhat pointless to put too much thought into these things. I am not so foolish to suggest that segregation does not exist but evidence that simply relying on self reported census categories tends only to tell one about "pigmentation" and does not really to help one understand where one might find a harmonious mix of people of truly different backgrounds interacting.

The degree to which folks claim to want "schools that are diverse" or some other measure is inconsistent with the reality that more than "race" the thing most correlated with academic success is the income and educational attainment of parents -- consider people like the Barak Obama and his wife Michelle -- they both hold law degrees from prestigious schools and have high earnings, their kids are very likely to do exceedingly well in school. Some random family headed by two parents that never finished high school and work minimum wage jobs are unlikely to have the time, skills, or motivation to ensure their kids do well in school...

Having taught in CPS I know there are (or used to be...) a fair number of well-educated minorities with good paying jobs in quite a few areas. Hyde Park is probably the pinnacle for AA families but other south side neighborhoods like Beverly & Morgan Park as well as "Pill Hill" also were affluent. On the north side all the traditionally desirable areas for affluent families like Lincoln Park, Gold Coast have greater racial range. The South Loop / Printers Row has seen a nice mix of families too. The more "boom" areas of Bucktown / Wicker Park have seen singles of various races but families tend to be both more affluent and greater likelihood of being of traditional majority race. Families living in parts of Chicago that some folks single out as "more mixed" often are less affluent and thus harder to recommend to those that really wish to have access to the better performing "neighborhood schools".

When seen in the harsh light of reality even places that do have a mostly affluent mix of families that have worked to improve the local schools reveal a situation that is really lead by the well educated stay at home parents that are overwhelming of majority race. This ought to cause thoughtful people to wonder if this does foster a paternalism and kind of unintentional superiority among the kids whose parents are lining up all the four star chefs for fundraisers vs the kids whose parents might be lucky to get a job cleaning tables in the restaurants run by celebrity chefs...

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I suspect the only "diverse" parts of some areas are in fact statistical anomalies -- for instance the IIT dorms in Bronzeville, a nursing home or retirement apartments in Pullman...

If you replaced only with "some" you'd be on the money. The areas in Albany Park, West Ridge, Uptown etc are diverse and not for reasons because there are a bunch of college kids or old folks homes there. Albany Park is especially known as very mixed, though West Ridge is taking that title more and more. A lot of the newer Filipino, Arab, etc immigrants are moving into that area and also Irving Park and of course Albany Park still.

[chet everett]

???

I did say "some". I might have qualified that with "those not on the north side"...

[marothisu]

You're right - I did miss the word "some" but you kind of had a double negative there.

[ChicagoMeO]

Funny how I've lived a long time on this earth and I've seen whole neighborhoods change. Interesting to see the nationalities move to new places and the places that certain groups of people now live used to be ghetto, bummy, run down, old industrial/warehouse areas, etc.. but now driving thru those areas, certain look totally different than when i was a little kid. Madison Street near the United Center and the west loop, Clyborne, Portage Cragin, Ashalnd and Belmont area, Diversey & Narraganset to Fullerton & Narraganset area, Goose Island, the near south side, the area by ITT on 35th, Wicker Park, Boystown, South Michigan avenue all the way from 8th to 26th St, 31st & Halsted, all changed including racially.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

Funny how I've lived a long time on this earth and I've seen whole neighborhoods change. Interesting to see the nationalities move to new places and the places that certain groups of people now live used to be ghetto, bummy, run down, old industrial/warehouse areas, etc.. but now driving thru those areas, certain look totally different than when i was a little kid. Madison Street near the United Center and the west loop, Clyborne, Portage Cragin, Ashalnd and Belmont area, Diversey & Narraganset to Fullerton & Narraganset area, Goose Island, the near south side, the area by ITT on 35th, Wicker Park, Boystown, South Michigan avenue all the way from 8th to 26th St, 31st & Halsted, all changed including racially.

The change has not all been in a positive direction. Areas like Marquette Park were once almost "posh". Surrounding neighborhoods had a nice mix of folks that all trusted one another, let their kids play out in the streets at all hours of the night in the summer, and basically had an urban version of Mayberry. Tap rooms were more likely to be run by somebody's grandmother who had no problem letting local grade school boys watch a ballgame on the blurry TV after the guys from Central Steel & Wire finished up lunch. Now the changes on the SW side make even tough guys think twice. School quality is absymal. The charter schools are a scam for the poltically connected to rake in dough. Violence takes the lives of kids and innocent bystanders. Jobs are so scarce as to have truly working families be the exception instead of the norm.

The stupidity of people flowing into Chicago not participating in elections/ ignoring the dominance of corrupt insiders has been devastating. There is gulf between the happy-go-lucky type that have driven up prices on the northside to bubble-like levels while other parts of Chicago look worse than your average "rust belt" city which at least has a smattering of blue collar hold-outs.