Chciago Streetcar (Chicago, Oak Park, Lincoln: transfer to, neighborhoods, taxes)

[ARaider08]

Hi all,
I was doing some soul-searching/career guidance/drinking and career planning and I became very interested in urban policy, planning and economic research. Broad stuff, right?
Anyway, I was able to get in contact with an organization interested in reintroducing street car routes to the Chi...
I'm in Atlanta working on their streetcar project right now and I'm curious as to the clout the project has in Chicago politics.
I've got a meeting with the Executive Director of the project soon when I return to Chicago and am wondering if there's any kind of public perception, interest or possibility of the project gaining leverage against the CTA, METRA or City of Chicago.

Anyone got any insight or talking points here?
I'd like to know what mess of Chicago politics I am walking into... Chicago politics SHOULD be a telltale that I should steer away but I'm a few courses from finishing an M.Sc. in Econ and I need/want the experience of grassroots stuff like this.
Chicago Streetcar Renaissance

[chet everett]

Surely who ever dreamed this up "ain't from around these parts" as the little bit of the linked web site that is not encoded in Flash (which makes it useless on smart phones and tablets from the most desired provider...) seems to suggest TURNING CLARK ST into the kind of DISASTEROUS TRANSIT ONLY MALL THAT NEARLY KILLED STATE STREET!!!!

Truly, this about the worst possible way to approach to any kind of urban redevelopment as even the most die-hard anti-car lunatics understand that even towns like Oak Park that bought into the lunancy of making it harder for customers to get into retail stores had to face reality and undo the damage...

I have attended quite a few meetings of the RTA and Metra boards and there is no shortage of lunactics that address these boards with public comments that one might mistake for the deranged rantings of some one escaped MK-Ultra or another government mind control program. Many people have huge mistrust in the motives of the folks that run the transit agencies and ascribe the most sinister plots to them. I generally just want to know how the service on existing lines is going to maintained /improved and costs contained.
The thing is you don't have be someone so paranoid as to be eligible for institutional care to understand that regardless of what the "street car bosters" would like to see many many many property owners would be severely hurt if Clark St (or really any other street in the region) was malled off from personal vehicles.

You don't need "clout" to see how whacky such a proposal would be. This is not some centuries old European town where the passages between builldings are barely wide enough for goat carts. Creating artificial barriers to traffic won't make Chicago more like a gnome covered hamlet in the Alps, it'll force businesses a few blocks away into strip malls where their car driving customers will follow and the folks left behind will feel duped with empty storefronts.

I hope it is not news to you that there is are an abundance of folks with degrees in urban policy / planning that are unable to find work at other than fancy coffee shops. It ain't for lack of having "grass roots experience" either as there no shortage of organizations that are only too happy to have such idealists do an internship. The fact is there is NO MONEY for these sort of proposal. Illinois has a massive fiscal mess on its hands with decades of mismangment pushing the state ever closer to ruin. The crisis in pension funding is driving local taxes sky high and much of the infrastructure is crumbling. No one with any ability to think rationally would think Illinois / Chicago is a good candidate for these kind of proposals. Even the much less radical proposals to create "bus rapid transit" that would still share the roadways with normal vehicular traffic have come under harsh criticism from folks with the knowledge and experience in Chicago to point of the pitfalls of such things in our increasingly challenged city.

I wish you luck in your studies and would suggest networking with professors to seek out a path that will have some hope of panning out. This will not.

[oak317]

Clark St killing State St? I can't see that ever happening. State St. was the main shopping district in the Midwest, and then only the Magnificent Mile became its rival.

The thing about Clark St is that it's an ugly mess of bare concrete and asphalt. It simply is not the same calibre as State St.

[Drover]

You misunderstood what chet everett said. He was saying "don't do the same thing to Clark Street that was done to State Street decades ago before they started allowing traffic on it again."

[It'sAutomatic]

Originally Posted by chet everett

You don't need "clout" to see how whacky such a proposal would be. This is not some centuries old European town where the passages between builldings are barely wide enough for goat carts. Creating artificial barriers to traffic won't make Chicago more like a gnome covered hamlet in the Alps, it'll force businesses a few blocks away into strip malls where their car driving customers will follow and the folks left behind will feel duped with empty storefronts.

Clark Street is (quite obviously) not wide enough to handle traffic demand. But yes, there ought to be some way of doing this without eliminating automobile traffic. My thought is an auto ban during evening rush hour in the stretch through Lincoln Park & Lakeview. At that time of day, no one sane would attempt to drive to any of Clark Street's businesses anyway. Maybe eliminate parking on one side of the street to clear room for the trains, while adding parking garages along the road.

[marothisu]

There is actually a group (or maybe it's just one person) in Chicago who's been trying to do this for awhile and I think you can find them on outlets like Facebook here.

Personally, I like street cars and the systems I've seen of some of them in other cities around the world. I like how they allow for automobile traffic too. My favorite I've been on is in Istanbul as it snakes through many neighborhoods including the old city. They were able to build this wing of public transit in a very, very old part of the city without really tearing down anything. Cars can still drive there and it's rather a nice and scenic way of seeing parts of the city if you don't have a car or don't want a cab. If you're ever there, you can take a train from the main airport (they have 2 there and soon to be 3) - usually the one you transfer to, to get to the old city, is the one that will start snaking right in the middle of pretty lively neighborhoods. Pretty cool.

[ARaider08]

Goodness Chett....
There's some fury behind that fire!
Luckily, my degree is in Econ not planning so I not only could do work with planning agencies but banks, consulting agencies, etc.
I will be brought on as a volunteer for it so its not really something I'm financially attached to.
That said, I think Clark St. does sound like a good opportunity to implement a street car line not only to serve commercial services but residential as well.
I haven't done the analysis but I presume environmental surveys and cost metrics would occur because instituting such a substantial project in the middle of that tiny street... That'll be interesting.
I will say, I disagree with the sentiment about where it will force businesses to go. Usually, at least recently, businesses clamor towards transit hubs. It's happening in Atlanta more so and I wouldn't be surprised if it's happening in other cities with newly implemented street car/light rail projects.
Businesses will go where the people are and more and more individuals tire of driving and would rather access by PT or other alternatives to driving.
I'm actually looking forward to seeing how far it could go.
I mean, if the CTA can introduce BRT to Ashland other proposals could work. Possibly a proposal to connect neighborhoods between Blue and Red lines via light rail/street car.

[chet everett]

As i said, it would be better if the OP and the guy with this streetcar dream really out to pick up a copy of the collected quotes of George Santayana's especially "Those who cannot remember the past are condemend to repeat it".

I have no argument that transit can be a postive force but in areas already well served with a COMBINED system that includes several options for mobiity to BAN one of the most powerful and favored optons would iikley result in the same DISASTEROUS CONSEQUENCES as similar foolish experiments.

[Kamms]

The City had proposed a ''circulator'' project back in the '90s. I recall it going into the South Loop area, maybe to service McCormack Place area. A decent light-rail/streetcar would be great to service McC Place north to at least Navy Pier, maybe west to United Center.

Also, there was talk of using the old tracks just north of the river for some kind of transportation link downtown. You can see them in certain spots in River North and, if I recall correctly, almost hugging the north side of the river.

[marothisu]

Street cars do not aim to get rid of one form of transit. They work alongside it - every single system I've seen in real life makes it possible for cars to drive alongside it.