Pinning a minimum salary (Chicago, Lincoln: apartment, loans, new construction)

[efrenb5]

I have a possibility to move to Chicago, but I know the employer will want to negotiate the salary. I told them 90K, but I'm willing to go down to the 85K - 87K range.

However, the fact is that I want to get out of Puerto Rico as fast as possible. Thus, I'm willing to lower my salary from that range.

What would be a definite minimum salary to sustain comfortably two adults with two cats, small debt, no car, and living somewhere like Lincoln Square? I'm thinking 80K would be that definitive minimum. Is this two low?

I know the question can be subjective, but just give your opinion based on what you know. No need to debate how accurate the number is.

[oakparkdude]

The biggest variable is how little are you willing to spend on housing? If you are willing to live in a dumpy, small apartment you can get by on much less. If you must live in a new construction owner-occupied SFH,probably need muh more.

[chet everett]

Lack of debt or children -- probably could squeak by on $60k...

Don't get sucked into a trap though -- if you have skills in a field that has salaries at $90k or more and legal right to work in the US you should ask for every penny. Chicago is rapidly becoming more expensive place to live for folks in desirable areas like Lincoln Square.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Lack of debt or children -- probably could squeak by on $60k...

Don't get sucked into a trap though -- if you have skills in a field that has salaries at $90k or more and legal right to work in the US you should ask for every penny. Chicago is rapidly becoming more expensive place to live for folks in desirable areas like Lincoln Square.

This is good advice - it is nearly always very expensive in the long run to accept less starting than you could. There are a few companies that will bump up your salary a year later to something closer to market if you were to start low, but often what you ask for is going to stick with you for a while and while it might seem it's easier to negotiate after they've seen what you can do the reality is that the company also knows it's a PITA to change jobs and many people won't change jobs purely for money and so they have little reason to aggressively raise your salary once you're there. And even if you change jobs, many employers are reluctant to pay you a lot more than you've been making - some even ask for pay stubs, etc. Now, personally, I don't like working at places like that, but I know that a lot of such places exist because I've turned down offers from them on principle.

The other risk is if you're at a place that uses salary "bands," or ranges. When you start lower you run the risk of being at the top of a lower band instead of in a higher band. When you're at the top of a band, raises will always be only at whatever the cost of living (COLA) raise is for that year. When you're at the bottom of a band, you'll get COLA plus some sort of career progression raise. Moving between bands can take anywhere from 2 years to 5 years or sometimes more depending on where in the organization structure you are. Arriving at the top of a lower band and being in a spot where you won't change bands for a while means that you compound your give-up for several years. If you were $10,000 under your actual value and were stuck there for 3 years, you'd be giving up $30,000. That's not an enormous amount of money, but it's not chicken scratch by any measure. Now, maybe it's worth that to you just to get off the island, but you should be fully aware of what you might be losing by not negotiating for the full value of your services.

Chet and I may disagree on some things, but I think he's well qualified in his advice in this area. I've been working at career-level jobs for 20 years now and I'm not going to state my salary here, but will say that for the Chicago market my salary places me in the top 10% of people doing my sort of work - which is partly because I'm good at what I do, but partly because I'm a strong negotiator and willing to demand what I know I can command in pay.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by emathias

This is good advice - it is nearly always very expensive in the long run to accept less starting than you could. There are a few companies that will bump up your salary a year later to something closer to market if you were to start low, but often what you ask for is going to stick with you for a while and while it might seem it's easier to negotiate after they've seen what you can do the reality is that the company also knows it's a PITA to change jobs and many people won't change jobs purely for money and so they have little reason to aggressively raise your salary once you're there.

The other risk is if you're at a place that uses salary "bands," or ranges. When you start lower you run the risk of being at the top of a lower band instead of in a higher band. When you're at the top of a band, raises will always be only at whatever the cost of living (COLA) raise is for that year. When you're at the bottom of a band, you'll get COLA plus some sort of career progression raise. Moving between bands can take anywhere from 2 years to 5 years or sometimes more depending on where in the organization structure you are. Arriving at the top of a lower band and being in a spot where you won't change bands for a while means that you compound your give-up for several years. If you were $10,000 under your actual value and were stuck there for 3 years, you'd be giving up $30,000. That's not chicken scratch by any measure. Now, maybe it's worth that to you just to get off the island, but you should be fully aware of what you might be losing by not negotiating for the full value of your services.

The OP very likely would be leaving tens of thousands on the table as most employers are truly very reluctant to "adjust" salaries for those hired on the cheap. For folks with skills / drive it is almost a given that they will have to leave and find a new employer that will pay them what they are worth..

[lenniel]

Let them put out the first number. If they ask for your salary requirements, your handcuffing yourself. You can always go down, but once you give a number, you can never go up.
An employer won't get upset with you trying to negotiate a better salary, they'll probably like that fact that you do so.

He who blinks first loses.

[efrenb5]

Great advice everyone. Thank you. I'm a software engineer. And although I know this job can get me something close to 90K, the fact is that moving from so far can be a risk for the employer. That's why I'm willing to lower my asking price.

The first position I land is probably not the last. I'm thinking of it as a stepping stone. Once I'm in Chicago I can always find someplace else if needed and wanted. True it won't be that easy, but it will be easier compared to finding a job from over here.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by efrenb5

Great advice everyone. Thank you. I'm a software engineer. And although I know this job can get me something close to 90K, the fact is that moving from so far can be a risk for the employer. That's why I'm willing to lower my asking price.

The first position I land is probably not the last. I'm thinking of it as a stepping stone. Once I'm in Chicago I can always find someplace else if needed and wanted. True it won't be that easy, but it will be easier compared to finding a job from over here.

Let's say they offer you $87,500 and you'd be happy with that.

I would come back with a counteroffer, (with a few reasons...school loans, higher cost of living, etc.) and ask for $92,500. The worst that can happen is they say 'No' and you get 87.5. But, they might give you the 92,5 or meet you halfway at 90.
They're not going to rescind the offer simply because you're asking for more.
Remember, their goal is to get you for as little at possible, so they work some wiggle room into your number.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by lenniel

Let's say they offer you $87,500 and you'd be happy with that.

I would come back with a counteroffer, (with a few reasons...school loans, higher cost of living, etc.) and ask for $92,500. The worst that can happen is they say 'No' and you get 87.5. But, they might give you the 92,5 or meet you halfway at 90.
They're not going to rescind the offer simply because you're asking for more.
Remember, their goal is to get you for as little at possible, so they work some wiggle room into your number.

This is true as long as you do it professionally and give them an experience- or market-related reason that you're asking for more. School loans are not a reason for them to give you more money. Higher COLA - if you can demonstrate it - can be, but coming from P.R., I don't think that will be relevant. When you ask, be clear but be humble about it. I have never seen an offer withdrawn solely due to a candidate requesting more money, but I have seen several offers withdrawn when the candidate acted offended at the initial offer and got all pompous and self-righteous in their counter-offer. If you want them to see you as a professional, act accordingly. This seems like common sense to most people, but trust me, there are some otherwise-qualified people out there who lose out simply because they don't know how to ask for more without coming across like arrogant jerks.

To recap: If you choose to negotiate, thank them for the offer and then make your counter-offer with market- or experience-related reasons to justify asking for more. Do not turn down their offer, simply say that your decision will be easier if they can match your requested number. That way if they won't match you still can choose to accept (or walk away, if it really is too low). But treat everyone in the process with respect at all times - I can't stress that enough because I've seen candidates lose out because they think because they have hot skills they can get away with treating people poorly: they can't, and any place desperate enough to hire someone with terrible people skills won't be somewhere you'd want to work anyway because you'd have terrible coworkers.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by emathias

This is true as long as you do it professionally and give them an experience- or market-related reason that you're asking for more. School loans are not a reason for them to give you more money. Higher COLA - if you can demonstrate it - can be, but coming from P.R., I don't think that will be relevant. When you ask, be clear but be humble about it. I have never seen an offer withdrawn solely due to a candidate requesting more money, but I have seen several offers withdrawn when the candidate acted offended at the initial offer and got all pompous and self-righteous in their counter-offer. If you want them to see you as a professional, act accordingly. This seems like common sense to most people, but trust me, there are some otherwise-qualified people out there who lose out simply because they don't know how to ask for more without coming across like arrogant jerks.

To recap: If you choose to negotiate, thank them for the offer and then make your counter-offer with market- or experience-related reasons to justify asking for more. Do not turn down their offer, simply say that your decision will be easier if they can match your requested number. That way if they won't match you still can choose to accept (or walk away, if it really is too low). But treat everyone in the process with respect at all times - I can't stress that enough because I've seen candidates lose out because they think because they have hot skills they can get away with treating people poorly: they can't, and any place desperate enough to hire someone with terrible people skills won't be somewhere you'd want to work anyway because you'd have terrible coworkers.

Good advice there.