This is NOT a stagnant city (Chicago, Lincoln: renters, coop, homes)

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

That is true but that guy did go to UIUC and started his first business in Illinois.

There are three main places that have exploded in popularity with the super billionaire set: NYC, London and Paris. London is popular with super rich Russians. Paris is more popular with super wealthy Arabs. NYC seems to attract all kinds. Of course these types of people likely all own expensive property in all of these places.

Yes, and he did not make his money in Chicago still. He owns other properties elsewhere. I'm not trying to compare it to NYC. I'm just saying that people do own places in Chicago that don't live here, did not make their money here, who are wealthy, and you don't know about. There used to be a guy in my building who had a place but he was from California and lived there full time. It was just another home for him because he liked Chicago. He came and visited maybe one weekend (or at most 5 days) per month. Just a few days ago there was news about a former Indy 500 winner who listed his nice Chicago home on the market, yet it wasn't even known that he lived in Chicago at all. Most people thought he lived in Ohio. It's not as publicized in Chicago and it's not nearly as much as other places, but it still exists.

[rzzzz]

Originally Posted by probablyimnotsure

What about San Francisco?

A lot of rich Chinese people have been buying up property in San Francisco. However, they seem to be the only people outside of the local tech industry who care about that area. I know someone whose dad bought him a penthouse in Pacific Heights, but his dad was the founder of an old school semiconductor place. The penthouse is usually empty as he spends most of his time in his other place in NYC.

There is an area for super billionaires down on the peninsula, Woodside. However, that is pretty much all Silicon Valley people. Even those people don't seem to care that much about SF the city. Some of the younger guys like Zuckerberg have homes there, but even he lives mostly in Palo Alto.

What drives up the costs in SF is not really the super rich, or even the regular rich, but just that there is a huge undersupply of housing. Half the city is single family homes. There aren't enough apartments and there is no place to build new ones. Nobody who already owns property has any incentive to ever move away because the property taxes are so low.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

A lot of rich Chinese people have been buying up property in San Francisco.

True also in LA and NYC. There's some in Chicago but not nearly as much as those other 3 cities. It will probably be ramping up as there's more money from China coming into Chicago. We'll see how the Dalian Wanda owner's project pans out and what it means for the city when that's done.

[rzzzz]

Super rich Chinese seem to have slightly different buying patterns than the other super rich people. In particular Sydney Australia seems to be the preferred area for them to park their money in real estate. My sister lives in Australia and I've spent about six months there. When I was there, there were always articles and news stories about how some Chinese person or family had bought the most expensive apartment in the country. At the time I think it was up to $32M.

In SF and the Bay Area there are tons of rich Chinese people distorting the real estate market. They basically buy up every SFH that comes on the market. An example are some friends of mine. They do ok, they both have jobs at Google and have cashed out various RSUs and options from previous jobs so have about $400K for a down payment. They are approved for I dunno, I guess $800K or maybe $1M. So they spend 12 months bidding on SFHs but every time some Chinese buyer swoops in and just pays cash. Eventually they gave up and bought a condo.

Anyway this is pretty off topic so I'll stop talking about the global oiigarch class now. In any case Chicago isn't very stagnant, especially the down town area. It grew in population like 96% in 2013, and within 1 mile of downtown grew 50%. Relating back to a person in another thread who said Chicago is turning into Detroit. Well actually the exact opposite is happening. When Detroit hollowed out it lost huge population to the suburbs. In Chicago it is the outer neighborhoods and suburbs that lost population, while the downtown is the part that is growing the fastest.

[Fitzrovian]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

As mentioned before, the supertall residential buildings in Manhattan are 2nd or 3rd residences for the global mega rich people. NYC turned into an urban resort for those people and their offspring over the past ten years. I got flamed for saying this before (not sure why) but Chicago is not that sort of town. The buildings in Chicago are mostly for "normal" rich people, who actually make their money in Chicago.

Out of curiosity, does Chicago have "air rights" above buildings like in Manhattan?

The reason these supertalls are getting built and command prices that are unheard of in Chicago is because there is demand for them in NY. Why is that a bad thing? If your gripe is that the global mega rich, as you call them, are fueling the real estate market in NY and making it unaffordable for the average person then you are barking up the wrong tree. The super prime market (say $10m+) represents a tiny proportion of the overall market even in Manhattan and there is little correlation between what happens there and the rest of the market. There is plenty of other inventory for the "normal rich" -- though still at prices that are astronomical by Chicago standards. But that's simply a function of supply and demand.

[ChiTownWonder]

it doesn't really matter if Chicago is doing all these great things, most people (espicailly outside the city) dont really see that, they see the crime in the bad areas of the city. you wont hear the three new high profile towers under construction right next door to eachother, you will only hear about the three shootings in one weekend, gang activity, ect... it sucks

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

As mentioned before, the supertall residential buildings in Manhattan are 2nd or 3rd residences for the global mega rich people. NYC turned into an urban resort for those people and their offspring over the past ten years. I got flamed for saying this before (not sure why) but Chicago is not that sort of town. The buildings in Chicago are mostly for "normal" rich people, who actually make their money in Chicago.

I doubt that's true.

If you go to an expensive Chicago building, like Trump Tower Chicago, tons of the units are owned by suburbanites, non-Chicagoans, or Chicagoans with two or three homes. It isn't just locals, or people with one home. Chicago has lots of wealth too, just much less than NYC, and less global.

If anything many of the highest end buildings in NYC are very local. Really the only exception is towers in Midtown, but even those are about 50% New Yorkers, which doesn't seem particularly low by global city standards. Towers like 432 Park are 50% bought by current city residents. If you go to a superluxury new construction building on the Upper East Side or Upper West Side, it will be 90% local. If you go to the equivalent in London or Miami, it will be 10-20% local.

Probably the only major U.S. city where high end housing construction is primarily due to non-residents would be Miami.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by Attrill

I don't think supertalls should be used as the sole indicator of development, they're more of a reflection on available land in any given city. And NYC certainly doesn't have "dozens and dozens" of supertalls going up, they may build a dozen over the next decade. If supertalls are all that matter to you then forget NYC and look to Dubai and China.

Wrong. There are dozens of supertalls in NYC planned and in development, more than any other city on earth.

And if you don't want to use supertalls as a proxy, then name your metric. Want to use just highrise construction, or # of units in construction? Chicago is not really doing that well in these metrics either, at least not relative to other major U.S. cities. Chicago has traditionally been the #2 U.S. city in "urban" type development, but not now.

[rzzzz]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

The reason these supertalls are getting built and command prices that are unheard of in Chicago is because there is demand for them in NY. Why is that a bad thing? If your gripe is that the global mega rich, as you call them, are fueling the real estate market in NY and making it unaffordable for the average person then you are barking up the wrong tree. The super prime market (say $10m+) represents a tiny proportion of the overall market even in Manhattan and there is little correlation between what happens there and the rest of the market. There is plenty of other inventory for the "normal rich" -- though still at prices that are astronomical by Chicago standards. But that's simply a function of supply and demand.

Well, I never said it was a bad thing. If someone actually wants to live in Midtown Manhattan, more power to them...

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

And if you don't want to use supertalls as a proxy, then name your metric. Want to use just highrise construction, or # of units in construction? Chicago is not really doing that well in these metrics either, at least not relative to other major U.S. cities. Chicago has traditionally been the #2 U.S. city in "urban" type development, but not now.

You have to use other metrics. This is obvious and not every city is extremely vertical like NYC or Chicago is. Are you going to hold it against Houston or LA because they aren't building **** loads of supertall skyscrapers? No. They're building tons of stuff and nobody in their right mind would hold them not building a lot of supertalls or even high rises against them. Very few cities in the world are actually really, really vertical like NYC or Chicago is. And nobody is claiming that Chicago is building as much as these cities. Anybody who thinks so is a complete idiot and fool. On the other hand, anybody who pays attention to things in Chicago realizes that things are ramping up more and more. There's currently 24 high rises under construction in Chicago with another 6 in site prep and some more ready to begin. A few more just recently completed too. This is not to mention a lot of new construction in areas like West Town, Logan Square, Bridgeport, Bronzeville, Roscoe Village, Lakeview, and Lincoln Park.