Is (Mount Greenwood, Chicago) Safe for a Mexican Family? (Naples: rated, property)

[nana053]

Originally Posted by glass_of_merlot

If Italians are not white...what are they?

It's history. My dad (he's Italian-American - born here) grew up in the time when Italians were not considered white. The Irish were also not perceived as white back then and it wasn't that long ago.

Columbus Day: Italian-Americans weren’t always white | Fusion

Like the Irish, another immigrant group that arrived in the United States during this time, Italians were not perceived as white. They were, as historians James Barrett and David Roediger call them, “inbetween people.“ But once Italians gained an awareness of what whiteness could bring them, they embraced it.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by nana053

It's history. My dad (he's Italian-American - born here) grew up in the time when Italians were not considered white. The Irish were also not perceived as white back then and it wasn't that long ago.

Columbus Day: Italian-Americans weren’t always white | Fusion

White is an ever changing idea that is highly inconsistent. With time even people from Mexico will be White. It is an ever growing status, not a race. Many Italians and other Mediterranean people are sometimes indistinguishable from Mexicans. Heck in Chicago Heights, you can't tell them apart sometimes other than by accent. Italians tend to have a regular Chicago accent whereas Mexicans do not.

[NealIRC]

^ Just like how Jews can be indistinguished from Middle Easterns.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

^ Just like how Jews can be indistinguished from Middle Easterns.

Considering Jews originated in the Middle East, I see no reason why they would look any different. Genetically Jews and Arabs are related. I find it interesting where a Jew will consider herself White but an Arab will not but the US Census says both are.

Anyways from a Mt. Greenwood perspective, I would say it isn't racist to brown people. Blacks I hear have a harder time but I cannot personally comment. People would always warn me of how it wad dangerous for a person of color (me) to go there and little did they know I hung out there a lot. Random strangers never ever said anything to me and I took many a White woman there on dates.

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

I find it interesting where a Jew will consider herself White but an Arab will not but the US Census says both are.

Middle Easterns have told me (Assyrians) that they fill out "Other" rather than White on the forms, so, they don't identify as White. I wonder what Jews in the U.S. fill out. I wonder if they're split.

[damba]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

Middle Easterns have told me (Assyrians) that they fill out "Other" rather than White on the forms, so, they don't identify as White. I wonder what Jews in the U.S. fill out. I wonder if they're split.

Interesting you used that particularly small (population-wise) ethnic group as an example. Besides mistakenly lumping them in with Arabs, a lot of people don't realize that Assyrians are predominantly Christian and not Muslim(!) Anyway, outside of the US, especially the middle east, terms like 'white' and 'Caucasian' just aren't used the same way. The US Govt considers North Africans and Middle Eastern peoples to be Caucasian, but I could see someone not checking that box if they felt differently based on where they came from and what their family experiences were growing up.

FWIW, my Jewish friends (even very Sephardic looking ones) rarely check anything except 'white'. They are mostly Ashkenazi (European) though, so it makes sense.

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by damba

Besides mistakenly lumping them in with Arabs,

No, I said Middle Eastern. Not Arabic.

[damba]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

No, I said Middle Eastern. Not Arabic.

Correct, and I wasn't implying that you did, if you re-read my post.

cheers

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by damba

Interesting you used that particularly small (population-wise) ethnic group as an example.

In a Jewish book about Jews, written by 1, in the 1st sentence of the 1st chapter (which was something like What is a Jew?), the author states "What is a tomato, is it a fruit or vegetable? To the scientist, it's a fruit, and to the chef and everyone else, it's a vegetable."

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by damba

Interesting you used that particularly small (population-wise) ethnic group as an example. Besides mistakenly lumping them in with Arabs, a lot of people don't realize that Assyrians are predominantly Christian and not Muslim(!) Anyway, outside of the US, especially the middle east, terms like 'white' and 'Caucasian' just aren't used the same way. The US Govt considers North Africans and Middle Eastern peoples to be Caucasian, but I could see someone not checking that box if they felt differently based on where they came from and what their family experiences were growing up.

FWIW, my Jewish friends (even very Sephardic looking ones) rarely check anything except 'white'. They are mostly Ashkenazi (European) though, so it makes sense.

Yeah, but you have some Jews who don't identify as White based on experience. If you're Jewish and grew up mostly around ethnocentric White Christians of Irish origin, you'd probably have a different experience than that of a Jew who grew up around mostly Jews and non-Whites like Filipinos or West Indians.

Consider that a Jew growing up in the North Shore will be surrounded by less White goyim and also surrounded by many darker groups who aren't even European. In that case, yeah they're White.

But what if some Jew grows up surrounded by mostly White Nordic looking Christians and is the only Jew in most groups? Then they probably would say they're not White. But that scenario doesn't really exist in Chicago's metro where most Jews tend to all live in the same areas and are rarely surrounded by many ethnocentric White Christians.

Now imagine if a Jew grew up in Mt. Greenwood? Maybe they'd sing a different tune than a Highland Park Jew.