Why isn't Chicago Metro growing.... (Summit, Kansas: houses, luxury, universities)

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by Avondalist

Chicago's future as a city is in robotic manufacturing, because of the transportation network and availability of fresh water. For the latter reason the Great Lakes can't be beat for heavy industry.

what does robotics manufacturing have to do with proximity to fresh water

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by chet everett

For folks that are renters and mostly work in NYC now, I suppose it is somewhat understandable that they can chill out at some hip spot while they're in town and shrug, but for those of us that have to deal with increasing tax burden that erodes the value of our homes while simultaneously making the likelihood that our employers are going to relocate to a region that is less hostile to their continued operation it is a very big deal indeed.

1) Please stop with the personal attacks. It does nothing to get anybody to take you any more seriously than they already do.
2) I live in both cities now. I have to deal with the taxes in each city.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by via chicago

what does robotics manufacturing have to do with proximity to fresh water

Them robots are thirsty you know.

[Avondalist]

Originally Posted by via chicago

what does robotics manufacturing have to do with proximity to fresh water

Any manufacturing requires lots of water, preferably fresh water. Robotic manufacturing doesn't require any more water than traditional manufacturing, and in fact it probably requires less. But traditional manufacturing will not last and most manufacturing will be robotic in the future.

If you have a thirsty industrial process, you aren't going to put it in LA or Phoenix when there's a massive drought and people would prefer to use the water (i.e. pay more $$$ for it) to water their lawns.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by marothisu

1) Please stop with the personal attacks. It does nothing to get anybody to take you any more seriously than they already do.
2) I live in both cities now. I have to deal with the taxes in each city.

I know that in a relative sense NY has higher taxes than Illinois. Fact is a whole lot of that tax burden goes toward are inarguably better services. NYC in particular has an transit network that is so much more extensive than even I have had to admit it would be nuts to consider driving around there. Truth be told, when I visit NYC I rely on the subway quite a lot. Some aspects of it annoy me (the heat being the worst, ain't nothing like the gust of hot air loaded with rat feces and human urine when the trains rush past...) but it is far more efficient than the CTA...

I further have been in the situation where I did work for firms that required me to travel to states like NY where you are required to have local taxes withheld and I know first hand it is not a fiscally attractive situation. Thus the second time you are asked to do this it is generally a good idea to ask for a whole lot more compensation and/or really swanky hotel allowance to make up for the hassle.

That, however, misses my point, which is that the continuing death spiral that is essentially a power struggle between the long time "lord and master" of Illinois politics, Mike Madigan, and our relatively recently elected Chief Constitutional Officer, Bruce Rauner, really does matter a whole lot to anyone with a home in Illinois as the the clear direction of the property taxes under Rahm (who frankly is out of options...) is to raise Chicago property taxes SIGNIFICANTLY to cover the shortfall in pensions and other obligations. I fully expect that the vindictive and counterproductive policies of the Democrats that remain fully in control of the State Legislature will be to ensure that suburbs will also have to increase their property taxes in their crazed view of "fairness" that really means "mutual destruction".

Even if one does not own property in Illinois, the subsequent pressure on employers to seek out employment locations that will foster lower compensation levels will have negative consequences on those of us who do current work here. Sadly the already low wages and high cost of living that make young people feel unable to get ahead are likely to be even more constrained under such a situation...

The situation in other states is CONSIDERABLY better largely because they did not have such a long run of single party rule. A decade ago NY's Pataki put in motion changes that ensured the pensions of NY goverment employees was not so crushing a burden as to trigger a similar problem that NYC faced in 1975 -- Pataki Proposes to Ease Local Pension Burdens With $800 Million Plan - NYTimes.com
Similarly California's Jerry Brown got a deal which helped fix their pensions -- Office of Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. - Newsroom

Meanwhile Blago was busy plotting how to profit from a US Senate seat left vacant by his rival -- Rod Blagojevich has had better days - Salon.com

[raleightransplant]

Originally Posted by ninjamyst

Because Chicago doesn't have any real strengths to draw people. People move to California for the weather, Texas / Arizona for cheap housing, Seattle / Portland for the lifestyle. What stands out for Chicago? Nothing good. When people think of Chicago, they think of harsh winter, high tax, corrupt politicians, and shootings.

C-D really brings me down sometimes. What I hear on this site is just not the reality I hear day in, day out living in Chicago. I meet people that have newly arrived and come here from all over the US and world, and yes..many times from warm places (I've noticed that Floridians and Californians in particular seem to love the lifestyle in Chicago). I travel quite a bit, and people almost universally have a *very* high opinion of Chicago, regardless of where I am. In my opinion, it's the only city other than NY that is a true CITY experience in my travels in the US. Enormous booming and drop dead beautiful beautiful downtown, amazing food scene, music, growing tech scene, beautiful beaches that line the city, beautiful neighborhoods of all kinds. Are you finding the housing stock you see in Logan Square or Hyde Park in Houston? Hell no. Extensive mass transit, where a young person can live carless. It's a GREAT city. Not sure why people on here trash it endlessly. It's crazy.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I know that in a relative sense NY has higher taxes than Illinois. Fact is a whole lot of that tax burden goes toward are inarguably better services. NYC in particular has an transit network that is so much more extensive than even I have had to admit it would be nuts to consider driving around there. Truth be told, when I visit NYC I rely on the subway quite a lot. Some aspects of it annoy me (the heat being the worst, ain't nothing like the gust of hot air loaded with rat feces and human urine when the trains rush past...) but it is far more efficient than the CTA...

The MTA is very extensive and by far the most extensive in the US. However, being more reliable? I've been riding the subways for a year almost every week, almost every week day. I used to ride the subways in Chicago everyday in the same way (still do about 3 days/week though in some fashion). I have yet to notice that it's far more efficient. I haven't really noticed that it's any more or less efficient.

it's more extensive, and on many lines there are more cars attached to the train. However, more efficient? if it is, then it's hardly noticeable. I've been stuck in a train just as much as Chicago. Furthermore, not all of the train lines in NYC run on an optimal schedule all day long. For example, the 1, 2, and 3 train pretty much with 5 minutes or less between trains for awhile (though I've waited 15 minutes before after midnight for a 1 train before). The R train however? Even right now if I go to ride it, I could easily wait 10 minutes for it and it's not even 7pm. I went out in the fall during a weekend until 4am and tried to catch the B,D,F, or M. Thought it would come pretty soon after. Nope - it was around 30-45 minute intervals. Not abnormal for some lines.

I further have been in the situation where I did work for firms that required me to travel to states like NY where you are required to have local taxes withheld and I know first hand it is not a fiscally attractive situation. Thus the second time you are asked to do this it is generally a good idea to ask for a whole lot more compensation and/or really swanky hotel allowance to make up for the hassle.

I have the ability for my company to reimburse me for taxes owed in other states, which is what I do, but I still have to file those states taxes. For last year, I filed New York, New Jersey, and Illinois state taxes.


Yes, I agree it's not optimal, but my point before wasn't about taxes. It was about corruption and the simple fact of life is that in almost every big city in the US (and tons around the world) there's going to be corrupt politicians.

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by raleightransplant

In my opinion, it's the only city other than NY that is a true CITY experience in my travels in the US.

i wouldnt really agree with this

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by raleightransplant

C-D really brings me down sometimes. What I hear on this site is just not the reality I hear day in, day out living in Chicago. I meet people that have newly arrived and come here from all over the US and world, and yes..many times from warm places (I've noticed that Floridians and Californians in particular seem to love the lifestyle in Chicago). I travel quite a bit, and people almost universally have a *very* high opinion of Chicago, regardless of where I am. In my opinion, it's the only city other than NY that is a true CITY experience in my travels in the US. Enormous booming and drop dead beautiful beautiful downtown, amazing food scene, music, growing tech scene, beautiful beaches that line the city, beautiful neighborhoods of all kinds. Are you finding the housing stock you see in Logan Square or Hyde Park in Houston? Hell no. Extensive mass transit, where a young person can live carless. It's a GREAT city. Not sure why people on here trash it endlessly. It's crazy.

There are many other cities in the greater Great Lakes / midwest that have essentially the SAME sort of residential architecture and quality of life -- be it Pittsburgh or Columbus or Cleveland or Detroit or Indianapolis or Milwaukee or St. Louis or Minneapolis or even Kansas City you will see portions of those of cities that share MUCH with Chicago. Of course the overall extent of urbanization and the relative degree that folks can find some kind of post college job in those towns (and head to a bar with craft beers and live music maybe some kind of independant restaurant / 'food truck scene') is far LARGER in Chicago but to say that those things are non-existent elsewhere is just FALSE.

The degree to which there are no significant ties to the global financial markets in those cities are really the only notable distinguishing feature, and yet that is where NYC is far more important than Chicago. Similarly folks that make a big deal about Chicago's "tech incubator" status are missing the fact that NYC has a MUCH more important base of such businesses, and the importance of tech in SF is on a whole different scale. In fact Chicago is sort in the "bottom of the top half" for tech start ups -- http://www.inc.com/associated-press/...p-funding.html

1. San Francisco, $9.32 billion, 506 deals
2. San Jose, California (Silicon Valley), $3.78 billion, 237 deals
3. New York, $3.05 billion, 272 deals
4. Boston, $1.05 billion, 158 deals
5. Los Angeles-Long Beach, California (Silicon Beach), $768 million, 105 deals
6. Oakland, California, $510 million, 41 deals
7. Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, Washington, $471 million, 56 deals
8. Provo-Orem, Utah, $462 million, nine deals
9. Washington D.C., $456 million, 77 deals
   
10. Chicago, $402 million, 57 deals
11. Austin-San Marcos, Texas, $315 million, 58 deals
12. Salt Lake City-Ogden, Utah, $275 million, 16 deals
13. Denver, $240 million, 26 deals
14. Atlanta, $233 million, 32 deals
15. Orange County, California, $212 million, 46 deals
16. San Diego, $140 million, 31 deals
17. Phoenix, $136 million, 12 deals
18. Dallas, $132 million, 21 deals
19. Philadelphia, $125 million, 32 deals
20. Pittsburgh, $124 million, 35 deals

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by raleightransplant

C-D really brings me down sometimes. What I hear on this site is just not the reality I hear day in, day out living in Chicago..

I do agree with this statement, for the most part. I have a few friends who aren't super high on Chicago who live there. They will say "oh NYC is better" but still won't trash the city either. They like it enough to still live there.

On average, the people who have actually spent time there seem to like it. Have heard many people say they liked it more than they thought and let the media sway their opinion before ever having set foot there.