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Old 08-06-2015, 04:36 PM
 
2,329 posts, read 6,606,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleightransplant View Post
I truly think it will. I've always thought this. As was mentioned, there is a saturation point with the North side. You see it now with pockets of the south and west sides gentrifying that many never would have dreamed of 10-15 years ago. There is also a very rich history to the south side, and some beautiful neighborhoods. Hyde Park, Kenwood, Bridgeport and Pilsen are a few of my favorite neighborhoods in this city.
Pilsen and Bridgeport kinda manage to escape the S.S. stigma because theyve been pretty stable for the most part. Hyde Park has always been nice and always will be due to U of C. The rest is a big open ended question. Not saying it wont happen EVER, but the hurdles are immense. Take a ride on the Rock island line....it looks like Dresden after the war

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Old 08-06-2015, 05:27 PM
 
867 posts, read 1,363,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by via chicago View Post
Pilsen and Bridgeport kinda manage to escape the S.S. stigma because theyve been pretty stable for the most part. Hyde Park has always been nice and always will be due to U of C. The rest is a big open ended question. Not saying it wont happen EVER, but the hurdles are immense. Take a ride on the Rock island line....it looks like Dresden after the war
Have you forgotten Beverly and Mount Greenwood?
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:11 PM
 
2,329 posts, read 6,606,671 times
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No, and I realize there are healthy neighborhoods scattered about. But we are talking about "rising", and those that need to rise are the ones that have been beaten down the most.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,764,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runuova View Post
I agree! Rental pricing will definitely help make that happen. I hear complaints constantly about being priced out of the Northside or someone wanting more space for their money.
I was thinking about this in terms of NYC as I was helping my girlfriend look for a place in Brooklyn this week. Area once known as semi violent (or kind of weird). Walking through there was such a mix of people whether it was perceived income class or race. A lot of the people that didn't fit in with the historical dialogue of the neighborhood were there most likely because they were priced out of other areas (this particular part of the neighborhood of 150K people wasn't hipster yet - a ways west was but not this part).

The issue is the growth aspect. NYC has going for it the fact that it's adding a lot of jobs and what not. Chicago, while it's adding some jobs, is also losing them too.

But in the end, is rising prices a good thing? Perhaps - you could see other areas grow under the right circumstances, but the already existing residents have to be accepting of those peoples. NYC also has going for it that in these areas, there's still a ton of places to eat, which isn't like some areas of Chicago on the SS which aren't very walkable. If you're going to be moving to Washington Park, it's not necessarily the same right away. I think in that case, it's a lot harder to justify that type of move for someone who normally would live in a dense, walkable north side community. I do see some movement on this front in areas like Bronzeville though which is good even if small scale.

So could we see it? Sure, it's possible and there's some pockets of it, but on a larger scale I don't think it's going to happen until the city can add even more jobs. I'm afraid though it would gentrify some areas too much - the last thing we need to see is 10 Starbucks in Little Village.
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:07 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,957,533 times
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Default Great points!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I was thinking about this in terms of NYC as I was helping my girlfriend look for a place in Brooklyn this week. Area once known as semi violent (or kind of weird). Walking through there was such a mix of people whether it was perceived income class or race. A lot of the people that didn't fit in with the historical dialogue of the neighborhood were there most likely because they were priced out of other areas (this particular part of the neighborhood of 150K people wasn't hipster yet - a ways west was but not this part).

The issue is the growth aspect. NYC has going for it the fact that it's adding a lot of jobs and what not. Chicago, while it's adding some jobs, is also losing them too.

But in the end, is rising prices a good thing? Perhaps - you could see other areas grow under the right circumstances, but the already existing residents have to be accepting of those peoples. NYC also has going for it that in these areas, there's still a ton of places to eat, which isn't like some areas of Chicago on the SS which aren't very walkable. If you're going to be moving to Washington Park, it's not necessarily the same right away. I think in that case, it's a lot harder to justify that type of move for someone who normally would live in a dense, walkable north side community. I do see some movement on this front in areas like Bronzeville though which is good even if small scale.

So could we see it? Sure, it's possible and there's some pockets of it, but on a larger scale I don't think it's going to happen until the city can add even more jobs. I'm afraid though it would gentrify some areas too much - the last thing we need to see is 10 Starbucks in Little Village.
I say a very similar thing about some of the areas inside the city that are very unlikely to ever experience a "boom" in appeal too. There are MAJOR differences in how not just the South Side but big percentage of West/ NW side and such have so little to distinguish them from suburbs. A part of the success of current gentrification is very much driven by transportation patterns and businesses -- if folks can hop on the CTA and get to work in a reasonable amount of time AND get back home to an area that has stores / restaurants / nightspots that has a very different appeal than someplace that requires lengthy bus ride or costly personal vehicle AND still might be deadsville when it come to "stuff to do when you are close to home"...

Density is certainly a factor, but there are all kinds of folks that have studied how it is not the ONLY factor -- any "intro to urban development" class will show the relationships between access to certain kinds of education that drives employment AND shifts in skills AND shifts in demographics AND access to capital AND thinks like food availability AND safety AND AND AND AND all can radically shift in relatively short periods of time... Just for instance, look at how many more people the new Malcom X campus can serve -- that will have a somewhat unpredictable effect on the other City Colleges, the obvious positives of the Blackhawks new practice facility, not sure what happens to the two somewhat nearby privately owned ice facilities, certainly CTA ridership could shift, all kinds of options -- City Colleges of Chicago - New Malcolm X College Campus Project Factsheet
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:07 PM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,247,648 times
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The North Side has never been more dominant over the South Side as today. The activity you see on the South Side (South Loop and the like) is largely just overflow from the North Side, and is much cheaper and less desirable than the North Side.

Obviously there are nice areas on the South Side and crappy areas on the North Side, but the North Side is the preferred half and has been a much better long term investment if you can afford it.
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,764,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
I say a very similar thing about some of the areas inside the city that are very unlikely to ever experience a "boom" in appeal too. There are MAJOR differences in how not just the South Side but big percentage of West/ NW side and such have so little to distinguish them from suburbs. A part of the success of current gentrification is very much driven by transportation patterns and businesses -- if folks can hop on the CTA and get to work in a reasonable amount of time AND get back home to an area that has stores / restaurants / nightspots that has a very different appeal than someplace that requires lengthy bus ride or costly personal vehicle AND still might be deadsville when it come to "stuff to do when you are close to home"...

Density is certainly a factor, but there are all kinds of folks that have studied how it is not the ONLY factor -- any "intro to urban development" class will show the relationships between access to certain kinds of education that drives employment AND shifts in skills AND shifts in demographics AND access to capital AND thinks like food availability AND safety AND AND AND AND all can radically shift in relatively short periods of time... Just for instance, look at how many more people the new Malcom X campus can serve -- that will have a somewhat unpredictable effect on the other City Colleges, the obvious positives of the Blackhawks new practice facility, not sure what happens to the two somewhat nearby privately owned ice facilities, certainly CTA ridership could shift, all kinds of options -- City Colleges of Chicago - New Malcolm X College Campus Project Factsheet

I'm not going to say that all of the south side isn't much different from the suburbs. Though I think what you meant is in lifestyle - driving, for example. I don't disagree with that statement for a big area of the SS, though there are a number of decently dense and somewhat walkable areas here and there.

I think that the train is going to be a big pusher for this as areas of gentrification seem to be within arms reach of train lines. Safety is of course big - there are areas that people will not go into because it might be too dangerous like parts of Englewood, but other areas aren't out of the question. I think for this reason, the areas most likely to benefit from a revival would be ones like Bronzeville/Grand Boulevard, Washington Park, and Woodlawn. These areas, although not the safest, are definitely safer nowadays than even 15 years ago. There is action happening in all three of those areas.

There is a shift going on in Chicago right now, but at the same time, the negative aspects of that are kind of evening it out. Unlike what's happening in cities like NYC or LA which are seeing more positives. Downtown has a lot of action going on right now and will continue for at least the next two years, but the rest of the city? Who knows if it'll ever happen - I really hope it does. I mean honestly, there's no reason why a Bronzeville, Woodlawn, etc can't be attractive for more people to move to logistics wise.
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Old 08-08-2015, 04:13 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,256,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by via chicago View Post
Pilsen and Bridgeport kinda manage to escape the S.S. stigma because theyve been pretty stable for the most part. Hyde Park has always been nice and always will be due to U of C. The rest is a big open ended question. Not saying it wont happen EVER, but the hurdles are immense. Take a ride on the Rock island line....it looks like Dresden after the war.
NO, I see it as these blocks and lots cleared of the WORST of the blight from racial turmoil of the 60s and neglect. Are merely areas RETURNED TO PRAIRIE. AWAITING A TIME FUTURE NEED FILLS IT IN AGAIN.

It's possible Water issues on the West Coast or a major earthquake and the Southwest. Even some impact in climate change? Could make the Midwest more desirable again. Chicago would surely benefit.

Or wait for renewal to slowly reach these neighborhoods with new infill as gentrified areas already have gotten.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8827...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8828...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8617...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8570...7i13312!8i6656

I believe that time will come for renewal in full.
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:50 AM
 
867 posts, read 1,363,822 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
NO, I see it as these blocks and lots cleared of the WORST of the blight from racial turmoil of the 60s and neglect. Are merely areas RETURNED TO PRAIRIE. AWAITING A TIME FUTURE NEED FILLS IT IN AGAIN.

It's possible Water issues on the West Coast or a major earthquake and the Southwest. Even some impact in climate change? Could make the Midwest more desirable again. Chicago would surely benefit.

Or wait for renewal to slowly reach these neighborhoods with new infill as gentrified areas already have gotten.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8827...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8828...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8617...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8570...7i13312!8i6656

I believe that time will come for renewal in full.
Those that can't see that have no vision. They're the ones that have to be shown and not told.
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:23 PM
 
4,633 posts, read 3,431,239 times
Reputation: 6322
Short answer is "yes".
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