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Old 03-31-2017, 10:30 PM
 
4,087 posts, read 3,205,764 times
Reputation: 3048

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
The fact that domestic out-migration is increasing birth rates falling as are international immigration rates. You don't have all three of these factors occurring (all probably have declining birth rates) in any other major metropolitan area.
So what exactly? Do you wish to say?
Doom,
Gloom,
a city that will be abandoned

A agenda that does not gain the intended? What do you want visitors to the thread to say or comment on? You do know Toronto passed Chicago proper in 2013. Did the city shutter? LA did decades ago. States are to pass states in the near future to other cities fall and others rise on population to claim a different placement. One rises one drops.

The thread had some sub-topics discussed. But you seem to be seeking something you are not getting? What is that? This Houston passing is old news and a decade + away. Came up a couple years ago on C-D. Couple threads had a run then till you seem to want some comment never given yet.

Just tell us the Moral of this story? What do you expect by this overtaking in a decade+?

Do you thing the world will see this as an event of the Millennium?
Some catastrophic Chicago National collapse at that time? Or sooner?

Tell us your prediction for Chicago in the next 10-15 years? Then maybe some comments you want will come?
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:31 AM
 
29,392 posts, read 19,480,032 times
Reputation: 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
So what exactly? Do you wish to say?
Doom,
Gloom,
a city that will be abandoned


A agenda that does not gain the intended? What do you want visitors to the thread to say or comment on? You do know Toronto passed Chicago proper in 2013. Did the city shutter? LA did decades ago. States are to pass states in the near future to other cities fall and others rise on population to claim a different placement. One rises one drops.

The thread had some sub-topics discussed. But you seem to be seeking something you are not getting? What is that? This Houston passing is old news and a decade + away. Came up a couple years ago on C-D. Couple threads had a run then till you seem to want some comment never given yet.

Just tell us the Moral of this story? What do you expect by this overtaking in a decade+?

Do you thing the world will see this as an event of the Millennium?
Some catastrophic Chicago National collapse at that time? Or sooner?
Lol It's just statistics.... If Chicagoland was gaining people you would be all over it, boasting... As would I. Now that the trend is reverse you downplay it/and or make exaggerated comments about doom and gloom instead of discussing reality..




Is this happening in the NYC area? No
LA? No
DC? No
Bay Area? No
Boston? No
Phillly? No
Dallas? Hell no
Houston Hell no
Phoenix Hell no

What other metros are seeing a similar population trend? St Louis and Detroit.



Quote:
Tell us your prediction for Chicago in the next 10-15 years? Then maybe some comments you want will come?

More of the same which is the problem. Domestic out-migration accelerates. International migrants don not see the area as unique anymore when compared to a dozen other metro areas, and slowing birth rate can't make up the difference so the metro area will continue to stagnate, while areas such as DC/Baltimore and San Fran/Bay area catch up or surpass us (as will the city of Houston).

We are the losing/stagnating and that is of a problem. Face reality, there is an unhealthy socioeconomic condition that needs to be addressed by our elected officials.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,851 posts, read 5,778,818 times
Reputation: 11467
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
To be fair, that is not very "Northeastern" like, where are the sidewalks? And when there is sidewalk why is it so far away from the street curb? I think that is the gripe that so many people have when referring to the "4th largest city in the country".

I mean even Fredericksburg, VA is built more urban than that in some places:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...605399!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...605399!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3032...8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...605399!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2952...8i6656!6m1!1e1
Here is just a small sample of some "Northeastern-like" sections of Chicago that I guess people "expect" from the "4th largest city in the US." So no need for people to gripe.....

Gold coast


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Go...253308!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8991...7i13312!8i6656


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8981...8i6656!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9005...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Lincoln Park


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9319...8i6656!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9211...8i6656!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9204...7i13312!8i6656


Lakeview


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9355...8i6656!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9399...8i6656!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9411...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Tri-Taylor/Little Italy


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8732...7i13312!8i6656


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8716...7i13312!8i6656

Most people know that almost all of the Loop and River North have a traditional, big downtown look and feel that is characteristic of most downtowns in the Northeast.

Loop


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Go...253308!6m1!1e1


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Go...253308!6m1!1e1


River North


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8861...8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8935...8i6656!6m1!1e1


There are plenty of Northeastern-like sections of Chicago, and there are plenty of "Midwestern-like" sections like the other poster posted. Again, it's almost impossible to characterize Chicago's look because it can be so vastly different depending on where in the city you are. But people shouldn't gripe about the of lack of Northeastern-like sections in the "4th largest city in the US" because Chicago has plenty them.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta's Castleberry Hill
4,760 posts, read 5,389,882 times
Reputation: 5131
I never understood the fascination about population ranking when it's about the quality of life. Its like men comparing penis sizes. A couple inches more or less don't matter to some, therefore a couple million more people or less does not matter.
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Old 04-01-2017, 01:00 PM
 
4,087 posts, read 3,205,764 times
Reputation: 3048
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
Lol It's just statistics.... If Chicagoland was gaining people you would be all over it, boasting... As would I. Now that the trend is reverse you downplay it/and or make exaggerated comments about doom and gloom instead of discussing reality..

Is this happening in the NYC area? No
LA? No
DC? No
Bay Area? No
Boston? No
Phillly? No
Dallas? Hell no
Houston Hell no
Phoenix Hell no

What other metros are seeing a similar population trend? St Louis and Detroit.

More of the same which is the problem. Domestic out-migration accelerates. International migrants don not see the area as unique anymore when compared to a dozen other metro areas, and slowing birth rate can't make up the difference so the metro area will continue to stagnate, while areas such as DC/Baltimore and San Fran/Bay area catch up or surpass us (as will the city of Houston).

We are the losing/stagnating and that is of a problem. Face reality, there is an unhealthy socioeconomic condition that needs to be addressed by our elected officials.
First, to have poor stay put? This is the REAL STAGNATION. This is what many of our cities had especially Chicago. A African-American community in most times with little hope for their neighborhood, job prospects and crime a way of life around them. Before the last decades census. These neighborhoods were stagnant to growing. GROWING MORE POOR.

Last decades census showed MOVEMENT AWAY FROM STAGNATION. For too long these areas KEPT THEIR POOR. That is the TRUE STAGNATION - Staying put in a changing prospects for low-skilled new jobs ---> to MAYBE COME TO THEM? IT ISN'T.

So FINALLY with probably this Gangland crime surge. MOVEMENT LOOOONG IN COMING----> OUT.

Sad - yes
good state of our society-no
long time coming - oh for sure
necessary - ultimately yes

Again ---- is not the real stagnation Chicago had? Poor, disadvantaged, becoming generations of unemployed poor. STAYING PUT? YES

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...UE05/306119995
Why Chicago is flourishing and dying at the same time. SO TRUE RIGHT

The bottom line truly is a tale of two cities inside one. But there is a lot of nuance, ranging from very promising to absolutely abysmal. MORE THE NEW AMERICA OVERALL THEN NOT? Chicago though has it clearly seen. ONE CHICAGO APPEARING AS THE MOST VIBRANT, WANNABEE HAPPENING REGION OF THE NATION. THE OTHER --- looks decent. But a place of low hope.

So the Poor moving is LONG COMING and is really what MUST COME.
Corporate America---> IS NO GONNA move da jobs to them.

Even moving to the suburbs gains little now. If poor also and a area economically in decline too there. So to merely move there. Since they can't afford Naperville. Had THEM FINALLY LOOK SOUTH TO THE SUNBELT. Going to the jobs was ALWAYS THE WAY. But the Poor remaining put. Established Ghettos as if walled in poor who remained more then not. A REVERSE MIGRATION THAT IS NOW NECESSARY.

So now if the Poorest areas of CHICAGOLAND. Have migration totally away. Moving to where job prospects are much better? IT IS NOT STAGNATION. IT IS A NECESSARY REALIZAION THAT ---- Corporate AMERICA is not returning lower-skilled jobs based ----> to them in these Northern cities.

Latino influx back to increases but NOT Large ones, BUT ALL GROUPS MIDDLE-CLASS BEING SQUEEEEZED. Is another American SCORGE. It is Nationally being seem. But our Legacy cities experiencing perhaps the worst. Chicago definitely seeing it.

So the Middle-class is now realizing their Jobs are declining in lower-skilled areas and Corporate America is NOT MOVING TO THEM WITH NEW JOBS. They are choosing the lower Corporate tax bases of the Sunbelt states in general.

Again TRUE STAGANTION IS:
- a disadvantaged poor base REMAINING PUT with little hope jobs come to them.
- a middle-class being squeezed. Not having those younger seeing they really can't move to a cheaper neighborhood? Unless less desirability aspects make it so. Like higher crime especially.

So for some it is NOT stagnating to realize some of them might be better-off in regions of higher middle-class job growth. ----> like the sunbelt. Add even to the suburbs for expected better public schools then the city. But STILL THE REALITY THE SUBURBS ARE REALLY NOT CHEAPER TODAY.

So where to choose? Where Corporate America chose to build then new industrial developments. JUST TAKE YOUR CAR or fa'geta'bout'it.

I won't try to lower mighty NYC to help out Chicago's low status you have. But I will say that NYC WAS --- WAAAAAAY DOWN once. 70s -early 80s lost 1-million people and BANKRUPT. A struggling state and a new governor finally threw it loans. A Reluctant President Ford succumb to pressure from the Business community and his Party. To float the city government loans guarantees that continued through President Carter. ALL THIS AFTER THE CITY WAS A MESS ---> rising crime and a degraded core.

Police, Fire protections cut drastically and trash pick-up sporadic at best. Heck, TIMES SQUARE WAS XXX SHOPS and Prostitution central.

Look at it no yes. Oh renewing, gentrifying through its Borough's. But poor being displaced AS MUCH OR MORE THEN CHICAGO. I know, they move into small cities PA whet housing is much cheaper to unreal cheap. In areas depressed. The don't move for the jobs most times it ain't the sunbelt. From Philly too for sure. I'm not talking the Pocono's NYC's Madison to Dells. LOL.

I'm a merely a tourist to Chicago now. BUT SEEING A CITY SHINING MORE AND MORE. I see one that is NOT IN STAGNTION nor showing a decline spiraling down and WORST THEN VIRTUALLY ALL OTHER CITIES.

Some seem to want to promote in a thread? Just driving on the Dan Ryan is a far cry from its pot-hold crusty state it was. Aesthetics also greatly improved. Downtown a reason for PRIDE NOT PROOF OF A CITY DECLINED.

Ironically, I knew the city and downtown when most living in the Northwest side as I and relatives all on the Southwest side to suburbs. Saw the LOOP as a NO LONGER TO GO ZONE. To work there was a in and out. Pride in the city and downtown more heading downward yet then not.

They were a product of White-Flight with resentment. But took their losses and helped build the last growth spurt of the city in the early 60s. They were still the greatest-generation now mostly gone.

But today Chicagoans AND SUBURBNITES have MUCH PRIDE in the regions CORE DÄY.

Just as changing DEMOGRAPHICS changed Chicago 50s 60s. Many times at a RADICÄL PACE. With RADICL RESULTS. The city's Demographics ARE A CHANGING AGAIN.

This change is PRIMARILY IN EDUCATIONAL LEVELS THAT A HIGHER WEALTH IN WAGES dynamics is changing Chicago's and other cities demographics again. THIS TIME THEY MOVE IN AND POORER OUT.

Far Less poorer in and wealthier out or transplanted to new neighborhoods. Now THE POOR ARE LEAVING STAGNATION BY STAYING. The Middle-class in degrees too. But this CHANGE HAS MORE POORER TO MIDDLE-CLASS OUT. THEN THE NEW PROFESDIONLS #'s moving in. When a OLDER RETIREING POPULATION ALSO LEAVING TO SUNSHINE TOO AND BIRTHS MORE STAGNANT TOO AS A POPULATION AGES TOO.

So yes CHICAGO IS A CHANGING. IT'S:
- uneven
- unfair a lot
- sad but a necessary outcome over staying put
- nothing new in a city in change for decades,
- true stagnation is to NOT CHANGE as a NEW REALITY IS ITS FUTURE

SUNBELT CITIES.
Have their own problems. Gaining DEBT FAST, a real inability at times to control its growth and steer it.
- no zoning
- not doing streets worthy of a 1st world city,
- having to re-make its neighborhoods not merely RESTORE them
- cores that had them loose their old charm and vibrancy by allowing it to be removed
- few preservationist to work to do so
- building low-street-level cores in towers that forget the street as more then a entrance
- build parking garages to be SEEN not in the background
- turn to underground corridors to avoid a uninviting surface of hot concrete

You see a Chicago:
- that PLANNING a city was more the case then not both early in Post-fire history and today
- a city that mixes bet of the new and old arguably better then any
- restoration wins over do-overs
- beautification is NOT a waste of money
- details matter in improving aesthetics and building it means UPKEEP must be factored in too
- never say WE-CAN'T but work through and with corruption for a GOAL THAT SUCEEDS EXPECTATIONS
- realize it TAKES A VILLAGE in Corporate, a cities wealthy and taxes to continue the ---- transformation, renewals and re-making a better city despite it being uneven and dis-jointed in revealing its regions in the city gaining more then another
- a city that MAY NEED TO SHRINK? Before it can AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF ITS DISADVANTAGED as THEY MUST RE-LOCATE TO WHERE THEIR LIKELY NEW JOBS HAVE CORPORATE AMERICA BUILDS ESEWHERE.

STAGNATION is to stay-put in a changing economic reality and see GROWTH IS KEY TO VIBRANCY??? No it is not in the REALITY TODAY of a NATIONAL TREND TO the South, Southwest to Pacific Northwest is where Corporate America is building plants to office parks.

I applaud that to JUST REMAIN WITH LITTLE HOPE OF JOBS COMING TO YOU. They choose to GO TO THE JOBS.

I still see poor gangland neighborhoods that look MUCH BETTER TODAY with worst blight and Projects removed. Rebuilt expressways and a Transit system getting infrastructure improvements to carry the city through this 21st century for decades more service. I see neighborhoods with street-cleaning and it shows. Many cities have limited service to little in its neighborhood's.

I see core that renewed in very positive ways with great success. So many cities choices show LOW SUCESS TO ACTURL MISTAKES. Chicago seems to keep making great choices? Iconic in claims od total corruption? Yet SUCEEDS FAR MORE in the results seen and revealed then seen as by fire missing the mark?
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,359 posts, read 8,763,571 times
Reputation: 5869
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
First, to have poor stay put? This is the REAL STAGNATION. This is what many of our cities had especially Chicago. A African-American community in most times with little hope for their neighborhood, job prospects and crime a way of life around them. Before the last decades census. These neighborhoods were stagnant to growing. GROWING MORE POOR.

Last decades census showed MOVEMENT AWAY FROM STAGNATION. For too long these areas KEPT THEIR POOR. That is the TRUE STAGNATION - Staying put in a changing prospects for low-skilled new jobs ---> to MAYBE COME TO THEM? IT ISN'T.

So FINALLY with probably this Gangland crime surge. MOVEMENT LOOOONG IN COMING----> OUT.

Sad - yes
good state of our society-no
long time coming - oh for sure
necessary - ultimately yes

Again ---- is not the real stagnation Chicago had? Poor, disadvantaged, becoming generations of unemployed poor. STAYING PUT? YES

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...UE05/306119995
Why Chicago is flourishing and dying at the same time. SO TRUE RIGHT

The bottom line truly is a tale of two cities inside one. But there is a lot of nuance, ranging from very promising to absolutely abysmal. MORE THE NEW AMERICA OVERALL THEN NOT? Chicago though has it clearly seen. ONE CHICAGO APPEARING AS THE MOST VIBRANT, WANNABEE HAPPENING REGION OF THE NATION. THE OTHER --- looks decent. But a place of low hope.

So the Poor moving is LONG COMING and is really what MUST COME.
Corporate America---> IS NO GONNA move da jobs to them.

Even moving to the suburbs gains little now. If poor also and a area economically in decline too there. So to merely move there. Since they can't afford Naperville. Had THEM FINALLY LOOK SOUTH TO THE SUNBELT. Going to the jobs was ALWAYS THE WAY. But the Poor remaining put. Established Ghettos as if walled in poor who remained more then not. A REVERSE MIGRATION THAT IS NOW NECESSARY.

So now if the Poorest areas of CHICAGOLAND. Have migration totally away. Moving to where job prospects are much better? IT IS NOT STAGNATION. IT IS A NECESSARY REALIZAION THAT ---- Corporate AMERICA is not returning lower-skilled jobs based ----> to them in these Northern cities.

Latino influx back to increases but NOT Large ones, BUT ALL GROUPS MIDDLE-CLASS BEING SQUEEEEZED. Is another American SCORGE. It is Nationally being seem. But our Legacy cities experiencing perhaps the worst. Chicago definitely seeing it.

So the Middle-class is now realizing their Jobs are declining in lower-skilled areas and Corporate America is NOT MOVING TO THEM WITH NEW JOBS. They are choosing the lower Corporate tax bases of the Sunbelt states in general.

Again TRUE STAGANTION IS:
- a disadvantaged poor base REMAINING PUT with little hope jobs come to them.
- a middle-class being squeezed. Not having those younger seeing they really can't move to a cheaper neighborhood? Unless less desirability aspects make it so. Like higher crime especially.

So for some it is NOT stagnating to realize some of them might be better-off in regions of higher middle-class job growth. ----> like the sunbelt. Add even to the suburbs for expected better public schools then the city. But STILL THE REALITY THE SUBURBS ARE REALLY NOT CHEAPER TODAY.

So where to choose? Where Corporate America chose to build then new industrial developments. JUST TAKE YOUR CAR or fa'geta'bout'it.

I won't try to lower mighty NYC to help out Chicago's low status you have. But I will say that NYC WAS --- WAAAAAAY DOWN once. 70s -early 80s lost 1-million people and BANKRUPT. A struggling state and a new governor finally threw it loans. A Reluctant President Ford succumb to pressure from the Business community and his Party. To float the city government loans guarantees that continued through President Carter. ALL THIS AFTER THE CITY WAS A MESS ---> rising crime and a degraded core.

Police, Fire protections cut drastically and trash pick-up sporadic at best. Heck, TIMES SQUARE WAS XXX SHOPS and Prostitution central.

Look at it no yes. Oh renewing, gentrifying through its Borough's. But poor being displaced AS MUCH OR MORE THEN CHICAGO. I know, they move into small cities PA whet housing is much cheaper to unreal cheap. In areas depressed. The don't move for the jobs most times it ain't the sunbelt. From Philly too for sure. I'm not talking the Pocono's NYC's Madison to Dells. LOL.

I'm a merely a tourist to Chicago now. BUT SEEING A CITY SHINING MORE AND MORE. I see one that is NOT IN STAGNTION nor showing a decline spiraling down and WORST THEN VIRTUALLY ALL OTHER CITIES.

Some seem to want to promote in a thread? Just driving on the Dan Ryan is a far cry from its pot-hold crusty state it was. Aesthetics also greatly improved. Downtown a reason for PRIDE NOT PROOF OF A CITY DECLINED.

Ironically, I knew the city and downtown when most living in the Northwest side as I and relatives all on the Southwest side to suburbs. Saw the LOOP as a NO LONGER TO GO ZONE. To work there was a in and out. Pride in the city and downtown more heading downward yet then not.

They were a product of White-Flight with resentment. But took their losses and helped build the last growth spurt of the city in the early 60s. They were still the greatest-generation now mostly gone.

But today Chicagoans AND SUBURBNITES have MUCH PRIDE in the regions CORE DÄY.

Just as changing DEMOGRAPHICS changed Chicago 50s 60s. Many times at a RADICÄL PACE. With RADICL RESULTS. The city's Demographics ARE A CHANGING AGAIN.

This change is PRIMARILY IN EDUCATIONAL LEVELS THAT A HIGHER WEALTH IN WAGES dynamics is changing Chicago's and other cities demographics again. THIS TIME THEY MOVE IN AND POORER OUT.

Far Less poorer in and wealthier out or transplanted to new neighborhoods. Now THE POOR ARE LEAVING STAGNATION BY STAYING. The Middle-class in degrees too. But this CHANGE HAS MORE POORER TO MIDDLE-CLASS OUT. THEN THE NEW PROFESDIONLS #'s moving in. When a OLDER RETIREING POPULATION ALSO LEAVING TO SUNSHINE TOO AND BIRTHS MORE STAGNANT TOO AS A POPULATION AGES TOO.

So yes CHICAGO IS A CHANGING. IT'S:
- uneven
- unfair a lot
- sad but a necessary outcome over staying put
- nothing new in a city in change for decades,
- true stagnation is to NOT CHANGE as a NEW REALITY IS ITS FUTURE

SUNBELT CITIES.
Have their own problems. Gaining DEBT FAST, a real inability at times to control its growth and steer it.
- no zoning
- not doing streets worthy of a 1st world city,
- having to re-make its neighborhoods not merely RESTORE them
- cores that had them loose their old charm and vibrancy by allowing it to be removed
- few preservationist to work to do so
- building low-street-level cores in towers that forget the street as more then a entrance
- build parking garages to be SEEN not in the background
- turn to underground corridors to avoid a uninviting surface of hot concrete

You see a Chicago:
- that PLANNING a city was more the case then not both early in Post-fire history and today
- a city that mixes bet of the new and old arguably better then any
- restoration wins over do-overs
- beautification is NOT a waste of money
- details matter in improving aesthetics and building it means UPKEEP must be factored in too
- never say WE-CAN'T but work through and with corruption for a GOAL THAT SUCEEDS EXPECTATIONS
- realize it TAKES A VILLAGE in Corporate, a cities wealthy and taxes to continue the ---- transformation, renewals and re-making a better city despite it being uneven and dis-jointed in revealing its regions in the city gaining more then another
- a city that MAY NEED TO SHRINK? Before it can AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF ITS DISADVANTAGED as THEY MUST RE-LOCATE TO WHERE THEIR LIKELY NEW JOBS HAVE CORPORATE AMERICA BUILDS ESEWHERE.

STAGNATION is to stay-put in a changing economic reality and see GROWTH IS KEY TO VIBRANCY??? No it is not in the REALITY TODAY of a NATIONAL TREND TO the South, Southwest to Pacific Northwest is where Corporate America is building plants to office parks.

I applaud that to JUST REMAIN WITH LITTLE HOPE OF JOBS COMING TO YOU. They choose to GO TO THE JOBS.

I still see poor gangland neighborhoods that look MUCH BETTER TODAY with worst blight and Projects removed. Rebuilt expressways and a Transit system getting infrastructure improvements to carry the city through this 21st century for decades more service. I see neighborhoods with street-cleaning and it shows. Many cities have limited service to little in its neighborhood's.

I see core that renewed in very positive ways with great success. So many cities choices show LOW SUCESS TO ACTURL MISTAKES. Chicago seems to keep making great choices? Iconic in claims od total corruption? Yet SUCEEDS FAR MORE in the results seen and revealed then seen as by fire missing the mark?
WOW!!!!
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,851 posts, read 5,778,818 times
Reputation: 11467
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
To be fair, that is not very "Northeastern" like, where are the sidewalks? And when there is sidewalk why is it so far away from the street curb? I think that is the gripe that so many people have when referring to the "4th largest city in the country".

I mean even Fredericksburg, VA is built more urban than that in some places:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...605399!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...605399!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3032...8i6656!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fr...605399!6m1!1e1

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2952...8i6656!6m1!1e1
My bad....I just realized those were pics of Houston and you were talking about Houston and not Chicago LOL. My apologies on the responses. I was at work the other day, so I was looking at this on my Iphone, so didn't see that these were Houston pics LOL

But interestingly, you can find some similar looking stretches like these in the far west and south sides of Chicago, and you also find a lot of east coast looking areas in Chicago too. Chicago has an interesting variety of architecture/look.

Last edited by personone; 04-01-2017 at 06:13 PM..
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:15 AM
 
4,857 posts, read 7,569,399 times
Reputation: 6389
When Houston is in 3rd place it still won't be as well known as Boston or New Orleans or Miami or San Francisco or Seattle or Atlanta...

It's about as well regarded as a Sacramento or an Omaha. Fine towns, but not exactly in the public consciousness. It's a place people you've heard of but have no interest in.

Even in Texas it'll always come in third behind Dallas and Austin.
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Old 04-02-2017, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Sweet Home...CHICAGO
3,421 posts, read 5,190,666 times
Reputation: 4355
Who cares if Houston becomes the third largest city? Houston's population is growing because there are lots of Chicagoans among the people moving there. But a lot of them will get there, see how much Texas sucks, how it doesn't live up to the hype, has comparable rents (or even higher rents) with much lower wages, and move right back to Chicago like I did lol.

And as far as the poor leaving Chicago, and in particular working-class blacks, working class jobs in Chicago pay way more money and often a living wage because of unions (which Texas doesn't have except one or two. Red states are very anti-union). So a lot of these people moving to Texas will learn the hard way that not only will they not have access to unions, they will likely earn 2 to 3 times less money for the exact same jobs but have equally high rents without comparable city amenities and have everything thing spread out with little to no access to public transit and nothing to do but eat a chain restaurants.

Chicago's poor "escaping" the bad areas of the city also don't realize that Houston has more crime than Chicago. The problem isn't all of Chicago, the problem is the bad neighborhoods they lived in. People automatically assume that the major cities in the south are safer when all the ones poor Chicagoans tend to want to move to have more crime. For some reason people don't research this before they move. They just assume any place is safer than Chicago when that's just not true.

All of these articles report how many people are moving to places like Houston, Dallas or Atlanta, but they don't report how many of them turn around and come right back once they realize these cities really aren't all that.

Last edited by Atlanta_BD; 04-02-2017 at 04:16 AM..
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Old 04-02-2017, 09:27 AM
 
29,392 posts, read 19,480,032 times
Reputation: 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
First, to have poor stay put? This is the REAL STAGNATION. This is what many of our cities had especially Chicago. A African-American community in most times with little hope for their neighborhood, job prospects and crime a way of life around them. Before the last decades census. These neighborhoods were stagnant to growing. GROWING MORE POOR.

Last decades census showed MOVEMENT AWAY FROM STAGNATION. For too long these areas KEPT THEIR POOR. That is the TRUE STAGNATION - Staying put in a changing prospects for low-skilled new jobs ---> to MAYBE COME TO THEM? IT ISN'T.

So FINALLY with probably this Gangland crime surge. MOVEMENT LOOOONG IN COMING----> OUT.

Sad - yes
good state of our society-no
long time coming - oh for sure
necessary - ultimately yes

Again ---- is not the real stagnation Chicago had? Poor, disadvantaged, becoming generations of unemployed poor. STAYING PUT? YES

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...UE05/306119995
Why Chicago is flourishing and dying at the same time. SO TRUE RIGHT

The bottom line truly is a tale of two cities inside one. But there is a lot of nuance, ranging from very promising to absolutely abysmal. MORE THE NEW AMERICA OVERALL THEN NOT? Chicago though has it clearly seen. ONE CHICAGO APPEARING AS THE MOST VIBRANT, WANNABEE HAPPENING REGION OF THE NATION. THE OTHER --- looks decent. But a place of low hope.

So the Poor moving is LONG COMING and is really what MUST COME.
Corporate America---> IS NO GONNA move da jobs to them.

Even moving to the suburbs gains little now. If poor also and a area economically in decline too there. So to merely move there. Since they can't afford Naperville. Had THEM FINALLY LOOK SOUTH TO THE SUNBELT. Going to the jobs was ALWAYS THE WAY. But the Poor remaining put. Established Ghettos as if walled in poor who remained more then not. A REVERSE MIGRATION THAT IS NOW NECESSARY.

So now if the Poorest areas of CHICAGOLAND. Have migration totally away. Moving to where job prospects are much better? IT IS NOT STAGNATION. IT IS A NECESSARY REALIZAION THAT ---- Corporate AMERICA is not returning lower-skilled jobs based ----> to them in these Northern cities.

Latino influx back to increases but NOT Large ones, BUT ALL GROUPS MIDDLE-CLASS BEING SQUEEEEZED. Is another American SCORGE. It is Nationally being seem. But our Legacy cities experiencing perhaps the worst. Chicago definitely seeing it.

So the Middle-class is now realizing their Jobs are declining in lower-skilled areas and Corporate America is NOT MOVING TO THEM WITH NEW JOBS. They are choosing the lower Corporate tax bases of the Sunbelt states in general.

Again TRUE STAGANTION IS:
- a disadvantaged poor base REMAINING PUT with little hope jobs come to them.
- a middle-class being squeezed. Not having those younger seeing they really can't move to a cheaper neighborhood? Unless less desirability aspects make it so. Like higher crime especially.

So for some it is NOT stagnating to realize some of them might be better-off in regions of higher middle-class job growth. ----> like the sunbelt. Add even to the suburbs for expected better public schools then the city. But STILL THE REALITY THE SUBURBS ARE REALLY NOT CHEAPER TODAY.

So where to choose? Where Corporate America chose to build then new industrial developments. JUST TAKE YOUR CAR or fa'geta'bout'it.

I won't try to lower mighty NYC to help out Chicago's low status you have. But I will say that NYC WAS --- WAAAAAAY DOWN once. 70s -early 80s lost 1-million people and BANKRUPT. A struggling state and a new governor finally threw it loans. A Reluctant President Ford succumb to pressure from the Business community and his Party. To float the city government loans guarantees that continued through President Carter. ALL THIS AFTER THE CITY WAS A MESS ---> rising crime and a degraded core.

Police, Fire protections cut drastically and trash pick-up sporadic at best. Heck, TIMES SQUARE WAS XXX SHOPS and Prostitution central.

Look at it no yes. Oh renewing, gentrifying through its Borough's. But poor being displaced AS MUCH OR MORE THEN CHICAGO. I know, they move into small cities PA whet housing is much cheaper to unreal cheap. In areas depressed. The don't move for the jobs most times it ain't the sunbelt. From Philly too for sure. I'm not talking the Pocono's NYC's Madison to Dells. LOL.

I'm a merely a tourist to Chicago now. BUT SEEING A CITY SHINING MORE AND MORE. I see one that is NOT IN STAGNTION nor showing a decline spiraling down and WORST THEN VIRTUALLY ALL OTHER CITIES.

Some seem to want to promote in a thread? Just driving on the Dan Ryan is a far cry from its pot-hold crusty state it was. Aesthetics also greatly improved. Downtown a reason for PRIDE NOT PROOF OF A CITY DECLINED.

Ironically, I knew the city and downtown when most living in the Northwest side as I and relatives all on the Southwest side to suburbs. Saw the LOOP as a NO LONGER TO GO ZONE. To work there was a in and out. Pride in the city and downtown more heading downward yet then not.

They were a product of White-Flight with resentment. But took their losses and helped build the last growth spurt of the city in the early 60s. They were still the greatest-generation now mostly gone.

But today Chicagoans AND SUBURBNITES have MUCH PRIDE in the regions CORE DÄY.

Just as changing DEMOGRAPHICS changed Chicago 50s 60s. Many times at a RADICÄL PACE. With RADICL RESULTS. The city's Demographics ARE A CHANGING AGAIN.

This change is PRIMARILY IN EDUCATIONAL LEVELS THAT A HIGHER WEALTH IN WAGES dynamics is changing Chicago's and other cities demographics again. THIS TIME THEY MOVE IN AND POORER OUT.

Far Less poorer in and wealthier out or transplanted to new neighborhoods. Now THE POOR ARE LEAVING STAGNATION BY STAYING. The Middle-class in degrees too. But this CHANGE HAS MORE POORER TO MIDDLE-CLASS OUT. THEN THE NEW PROFESDIONLS #'s moving in. When a OLDER RETIREING POPULATION ALSO LEAVING TO SUNSHINE TOO AND BIRTHS MORE STAGNANT TOO AS A POPULATION AGES TOO.

So yes CHICAGO IS A CHANGING. IT'S:
- uneven
- unfair a lot
- sad but a necessary outcome over staying put
- nothing new in a city in change for decades,
- true stagnation is to NOT CHANGE as a NEW REALITY IS ITS FUTURE

SUNBELT CITIES.
Have their own problems. Gaining DEBT FAST, a real inability at times to control its growth and steer it.
- no zoning
- not doing streets worthy of a 1st world city,
- having to re-make its neighborhoods not merely RESTORE them
- cores that had them loose their old charm and vibrancy by allowing it to be removed
- few preservationist to work to do so
- building low-street-level cores in towers that forget the street as more then a entrance
- build parking garages to be SEEN not in the background
- turn to underground corridors to avoid a uninviting surface of hot concrete

You see a Chicago:
- that PLANNING a city was more the case then not both early in Post-fire history and today
- a city that mixes bet of the new and old arguably better then any
- restoration wins over do-overs
- beautification is NOT a waste of money
- details matter in improving aesthetics and building it means UPKEEP must be factored in too
- never say WE-CAN'T but work through and with corruption for a GOAL THAT SUCEEDS EXPECTATIONS
- realize it TAKES A VILLAGE in Corporate, a cities wealthy and taxes to continue the ---- transformation, renewals and re-making a better city despite it being uneven and dis-jointed in revealing its regions in the city gaining more then another
- a city that MAY NEED TO SHRINK? Before it can AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF ITS DISADVANTAGED as THEY MUST RE-LOCATE TO WHERE THEIR LIKELY NEW JOBS HAVE CORPORATE AMERICA BUILDS ESEWHERE.

STAGNATION is to stay-put in a changing economic reality and see GROWTH IS KEY TO VIBRANCY??? No it is not in the REALITY TODAY of a NATIONAL TREND TO the South, Southwest to Pacific Northwest is where Corporate America is building plants to office parks.

I applaud that to JUST REMAIN WITH LITTLE HOPE OF JOBS COMING TO YOU. They choose to GO TO THE JOBS.

I still see poor gangland neighborhoods that look MUCH BETTER TODAY with worst blight and Projects removed. Rebuilt expressways and a Transit system getting infrastructure improvements to carry the city through this 21st century for decades more service. I see neighborhoods with street-cleaning and it shows. Many cities have limited service to little in its neighborhood's.

I see core that renewed in very positive ways with great success. So many cities choices show LOW SUCESS TO ACTURL MISTAKES. Chicago seems to keep making great choices? Iconic in claims od total corruption? Yet SUCEEDS FAR MORE in the results seen and revealed then seen as by fire missing the mark?


Your viewpoint differs from the viewpoints presented in this article from the Trib last week


Chicago area leads U.S. in population loss, sees drop for 2nd year in a row



Quote:
The city's expensive, she said. Public schools face an unfolding financial crisis and the violence is "terrifying and frightening" to a parent-to-be

Quote:
Of the country's 10 largest cities, the Chicago metropolitan statistical area was the only one to drop in population between 2015 and 2016




Quote:
By most estimates, the Chicago area's population will continue to decline in the coming years

Quote:
Tribune surveyed dozens of former residents who've packed up in recent years and they cited a variety of reasons: high taxes, the state budget stalemate, crime, the unemployment rate and weather.
Quote:
"There's this big regional thing going on. It's not about what's wrong with Chicago — if anything, it's what's wrong with the Midwest or the Northeast," said Rob Paral, a Chicago-based demographer
Quote:
Illinois was among eight states to lose residents, putting its population at 12,801,539 people, its lowest since about 2009.
Quote:
The potential fallout is both political and financial. Federal and state government dollars are often distributed to local government agencies based on population, so a drop in population creates long-term budget concerns. And when communities pour millions into infrastructure and schools, they're basing their projections on future growth. If that growth doesn't happen, experts say, the remaining taxpayers are stuck covering the cost.

Quote:
More than any other city, Chicago has depended on Mexican immigrants to balance the
sluggish growth of its native-born population. During the 1990s, immigration accounted for most of Chicago's population growth.
After 2007, when Mexican-born populations began to fall across all the nation's major metropolitan areas, most cities managed to make up for the loss with the growth of their native populations. Chicago couldn't

Quote:
The exodus to warmer states is led by the Chicago region's black population, in search of stable incomes and safe neighborhoods

Quote:
Among those leaving are younger working-age adults, who make up some of the largest groups leaving the state, experts say

Quote:
Sure, we would rather be an area that's growing (more rapidly)," he said. "When you grow, you have more consumers. When you grow, you have more producers. And therefore a more dynamic economy."
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