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Old 10-08-2015, 12:12 PM
 
4,633 posts, read 3,447,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
When you have so many with limited experience in living, working and socializing with Black people, it impacts how they treat the few who shop in their businesses and move next door.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:22 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,468 times
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edsg25 suggests that Chicago's racial segregation is unique. Yet data and analyses from J. Logan's article, The persistence of segregation in the metropolis, indicate that numerous cities across the northeast and midwest, in particular, have had and still have (in 2010) high levels of black-white segregation. And in 2010, four cities had higher segregation than Chicago (using the dissimilarity index). Other studies, some from earlier time periods, show similar results: Chicago has consistently high levels of black-white segregation but so do numerous other cities. I don't think Chicago is unique in having high black-white segregation, unfortunately.

edsg25 also suggests that Chicago has changed significantly and is not "that city of the past where intolerance and separation were a way of life." It might be useful to look at some of the findings in a qualitative study of four Chicago neighborhoods, reported in W.J. Wilson and R.P. Taub's book, There Goes the Neighborhood. As an example, some of the researchers were told the following joke at a soccer practice: "What is black and yellow and a happy sight? A busload of black guys going over a cliff." Though survey research indicates that attitudes about race have become more tolerant, don't think the change has been significant enough to conclude that we are in a "post-racial" city or society.

Chicagobear noted that we don't have government enforced segregation. True, but government policies certainly contributed to segregation. Both Massey and Denton's book, American Apartheid, and Hirsch's book, Making of the Second Ghetto, detail government's contribution. And agree with Slate Moonstone that Coates' article, An argument for reparations, is a critical read for this topic.

Though I disagree with some of edsg25's argument, I agree that Chicago's past continues to have a strong influence on the city and its residents.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,359 posts, read 8,794,177 times
Reputation: 5870
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfben View Post
edsg25 suggests that Chicago's racial segregation is unique. Yet data and analyses from J. Logan's article, The persistence of segregation in the metropolis, indicate that numerous cities across the northeast and midwest, in particular, have had and still have (in 2010) high levels of black-white segregation. And in 2010, four cities had higher segregation than Chicago (using the dissimilarity index). Other studies, some from earlier time periods, show similar results: Chicago has consistently high levels of black-white segregation but so do numerous other cities. I don't think Chicago is unique in having high black-white segregation, unfortunately.
like virtually everyone else, stben, you miss my point. i never suggested that chicago's racial segregation is unique. what i said was unique was the large scale of black belts in the city. and what i suggested was that through the creation of these large areas that they became virtual "dead zones" incapable of reviving. if Chicago's pattern of segregation was more akin to what existed in NYC where black neighborhoods were spread through the fabric of the city, it is easier to revive these places.

i'm well aware of the horrible conditions we created by forcing blacks to live in confined areas well across America.

this thread has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the issues that i raised.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,838,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
what i said was unique was the large scale of black belts in the city
I wouldn't say that's necessarily unique in America, though definitely not everywhere and it's sad no matter where it occurs. Cities like Memphis, Philadelphia, and Detroit have that, and yes, NYC has large areas where African Americans are the overwhelming majority. Chicago probably leads, at least for large cities over 750K people, in percentage I'm guessing.

Last edited by marothisu; 10-08-2015 at 10:04 PM..
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,838,747 times
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Here's a few random numbers - the number and percentage for a few cities of the number of people who live in census tracts of at least 85% Black population:

* Chicago | 641,295 people | 23.8%
* NYC | 516,038 people | 6.3%
* Philadelphia | 349,095 | 22.9%
* Baltimore | 285,013 | 45.9%
* Memphis | 241,525 | 37.3%
* Washington DC | 182,939 | 30.4%
* Atlanta | 168,965 | 40.2%
* New Orleans | 119,361 | 34.7%
* Milwaukee | 87,876 | 14.8%
* Houston | 56,773 | 2.7%
* Dallas | 37,903 | 3.2%
* Indianapolis | 25,953 | 3.2%
* Miami | 21,259 | 5.3%
* Los Angeles | 8211 | 0.22%

At least in the list above, Chicago has the highest population of peoples living in areas of at least 85% Black population. It is 6th in percentage of that population to the overall city population. Though I'm not including Detroit - the data is weird, but it's about 83% for the entire city so I'm pretty sure it would be #1 in percentage.

Last edited by marothisu; 10-08-2015 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:19 AM
 
11,973 posts, read 31,712,480 times
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My job over the years has reached in to both "creative class" college-educated office environments and working class circles. In the former, I worked in offices that drew people from all over the world who were primarily educated and liberal. Lot's of advanced degrees, a healthy infusion of Ivy Leaguers, etc. In those circles, racism of any kind was completely taboo. I'm sure people carried biases (we all do), but they were considered personality flaws to be frowned upon and eliminated if possible. This was most of my Chicago experience for at least a decade, and I often felt that the old "racist Chicago" I had heard of had largely faded.

In recent years I've been "in the field" on construction sites quite a bit more, and have had more exposure to manufacturing facilities. So at times I am immersed in more of the "working class white Chicago" of old, and in these circles racism is very out in the open and overt. I've seen people make racist comments in workplaces without any fear of shame or repercussions. I've seen discrimination in hiring practices. It's all very disturbing to me, and has changed my views about Chicago and it's suburbs.

Racism is alive and well in America, and Chicago certainly reflects this reality. My blinders are off.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,838,747 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
My job over the years has reached in to both "creative class" college-educated office environments and working class circles. In the former, I worked in offices that drew people from all over the world who were primarily educated and liberal. Lot's of advanced degrees, a healthy infusion of Ivy Leaguers, etc. In those circles, racism of any kind was completely taboo. I'm sure people carried biases (we all do), but they were considered personality flaws to be frowned upon and eliminated if possible. This was most of my Chicago experience for at least a decade, and I often felt that the old "racist Chicago" I had heard of had largely faded.

In recent years I've been "in the field" on construction sites quite a bit more, and have had more exposure to manufacturing facilities. So at times I am immersed in more of the "working class white Chicago" of old, and in these circles racism is very out in the open and overt. I've seen people make racist comments in workplaces without any fear of shame or repercussions. I've seen discrimination in hiring practices. It's all very disturbing to me, and has changed my views about Chicago and it's suburbs.

Racism is alive and well in America, and Chicago certainly reflects this reality. My blinders are off.
I think this is important. My experience in Chicago has been one largely in the office world - we have people from all over the world in our offices with every inhabited continent represented. Racism is very frowned upon too - my coworker who's from Korea has joked about himself, but nobody would dare do that and join in, even at a happy hour. I met a guy (non-white) a few weeks ago though who said they were playing Cards Against Humanity at his office when peoples' racist sides started coming out using the card game as their defense in a way.

Anyway, that's been largely my experience too, but I've seen sometimes the other side of it too.. I do have a particular friend though, and although he's kind of in that "professional office class" of people, he grew up in Bridgeport to a pretty damn old school Chicago working class family. He will make bigoted remarks, as a joke, to me all the time, and though I just take them as a joke since I know him pretty well now he still does it and thinks he can get away with it. I know him through another friend, who used to do the same thing to me all the time, but I used to get more pissed off back then as I do now. The interesting thing is that this friend of mine joined in right away with my other friend the first or second time he heard the other friend saying these things to me.

I also have another friend, also non-white, who said people at her work during a happy hour started asking her weird questions related to race. She told me a manager at one of her previous jobs, one of the better known and most successful Chicago-based companies, denied a guy only because he was African American.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Illinois
596 posts, read 818,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I think this is important. My experience in Chicago has been one largely in the office world - we have people from all over the world in our offices with every inhabited continent represented. Racism is very frowned upon too - my coworker who's from Korea has joked about himself, but nobody would dare do that. Nobody would respond though. I met a guy (non-white) a few weeks ago though who said they were playing Cards Against Humanity at his office when peoples' racist sides started coming out using the card game as their defense in a way.

Anyway, that's been largely my experience too, but I've seen sometimes the other side of it too.. I do have a particular friend though, and although he's kind of in that "class" of people, he grew up in Bridgeport to a pretty damn old school Chicago working class family. He will make bigoted remarks, as a joke, to me all the time, and though I just take them as a joke he still does it and thinks he can get away with it.
If there's racism in the white-collar world, it's hidden. If there's racism in the blue-collar world, it's more out in the open.

There's just as much racism in white-collar, it's just more hidden.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
15,331 posts, read 23,838,747 times
Reputation: 7419
Quote:
Originally Posted by probablyimnotsure View Post
If there's racism in the white-collar world, it's hidden. If there's racism in the blue-collar world, it's more out in the open.

There's just as much racism in white-collar, it's just more hidden.
I think people tend to be more conservative at the office when it comes to that. A lot of these companies have strict policies about this type of thing. Needless to say, if I even said the N word at my office no matter how I meant it, I'd probably be fired on the spot or asked to leave in the next handful of days after my superiors going through the correct firing process (which can take time). Furthermore, bridges would be burned and other companies that I'd try and go to would probably learn about the situation. I definitely think these policies stop people, even if they're racist inside. However, at least where I've worked, most people I've gotten to know are not bigoted at all, but I'm sure they exist out there - they're just stopped by knowing they're going to screw themselves over if they don't keep themselves in check at the office.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:56 AM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,382,316 times
Reputation: 20327
True I used to joke that the only way many government employees get fired is if they are on video tape committing a serious felony or they say something racist.
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