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Or perhaps he has an opinion that doesn't match that of the ridiculous homers, thus sparking personal attacks rather than any attempt at a logical refutation.
I don't see personal attacks levied against said poster, but I have seen him call someone a liar on this thread. The thing that I think needs to be asked is why it is homerish to refute something as simple as COL from a private survey based upon evidence from a broad range of data sources: official government, academic, other private sources, a simple zillow/rental search, and the fact of the many people who have lived in both cities known to people on this thread, there has been no evidence of anyone saying, "Man, LA is cheaper than Chicago." As a matter of fact, it universally is the opposite. Private studies are often intended to be provocative through methodological slight of hand. Some private studies. Not all. This is done not because the author wants to say something in particular about Chicago, but because they want to generate buzz. The fact that the estimate debated here cuts against the grain of every other published conclusion raises that possibility.
Either this survey is wrong, or every other survey/study/bit of real world experience is. Take your pick. Someone can make the claim that this study is super comprehensive. Fine. Prove how it is more comprehensive than official government data collected in a more extensive manner or explain why intelligent human beings who move from CHI to LA can't ever seem to find less expensive housing (or even similarly priced housing) in analogous neighborhoods.
You can't just say, well everything else from before is wrong because this is a study that [fill in blank]. That's not how inquiry works. The burden of proof is on the new evidence, not the prevailing body of evidence. So if a poster is inclined to believe it, ask the authors for the data points they used for the housing estimatesand prove it to us. The actual units, characteristics, and locations. Also, don't move the bar and say its unions propping up wages. Not when there is plenty of evidence to suggest that non unionized industries closer to the bottom of the wage scale have similar advantages. Again, that's not how evidence and inquiry works. Your world view doesn't corroborate the data. The data in its entirety, and not just a few random pieces of it, should instead inform your view.
People on a local thread are typically going to defend their city, but I don't see the complete homerism claim. Most people here will agree that relative to the half dozen or so regions CHI is compared to, that CHI has a crime issue. We don't talk about it here because there is nothing else that really needs to be said. The point isn't debatable. Economic growth has been relatively sluggish. The city appears to be over reliant on TIF and there are budget issues. The difference isn't that unions are ruining Chicago or that artisanal mustachioed cheese makers are ruining Chicago. Notice how the poster can conveniently blame the city for simultaneously being too old school/out of touch or too new school like most flagship urban areas of the country at the same time. The difference between CHI and its coastal counterparts is that the Midwest de industrialized later than many other areas because the Midwest has been better positioned to retain manufacturing for longer. It's a growing/transformational pain that you could find in many places that went through the same thing 20 years earlier. Many places are still going through it, many worse than Chicago. Many younger urban areas who were the media darlings 10-15 years ago have grown to the point where they are starting to experience their own issues. Atlanta and Phoenix for instance. Based upon their economic growth the past 10 years, they aren't doing as well. Dallas and Houston are likely to find themselves in the same pickle in the next 10-15 years. I don't wish this on them. It's just the pattern of things as expenses begin to mount, infrastructure isn't as shiny, bills start coming due, and the growth inevitably regresses closer to the norm. China didn't boom forever and neither did the Soviet Union under Stalin or 1980s Japan. Regional economies are the same way. Suddenly the unemployed journeyman tradesman who moved to Houston for work finds himself in Houston, unemployed once again. This time in their dime.
No urban area can be all things to all people, but the perception one gets from the drivel posted here is that Armageddon is upon us and Chicago is nothing to anyone is laughable. It's equal parts PT Barnum and the senile, angry, paranoid guy I have to deal w every time I visit my grandmother at the senior center. It's a tired shtick that is as annoying as the booster who only sees sunshine. Luckily, neither label applies to the vast majority if posters here.
just you continue to post negatively on ALL aspects Chicago is complemented. THEIR POST COUNT TOO.... and many from personal perspectives. Or as Tourist and Travelers all over....
Besides it is ONE POSTER ALL ARE ARGUING AGAINST.... ONE. But in other threads you are Anti-Chicago wherever you can interject it...
As this post Shows.... you ARE VERY BITTER ON THIS CITY YOU LIVED.... AND FIND YOU CAN VENT IT HERE... Sorry YOU HAVE NOTHING POSITIVE TO DEFEND IT ON VS. ANY CITY.
Not sure why you always have to SHOUT. Ridiculous. Your posts don't even really make any sense.
All I know is for some reason, you cannot bear to hear anything negative whatsoever. Tough beans. No one appointed you King and you don't get to decide what other people get to think, feel or post. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. I am not obligated to find anything positive about Chicago or to defend it. It is my job to tell the truth about my own personal experiences, whether they are good or bad.
I am bitter that the liberals ruined Chicago. I am bitter that people who work in the private sector get taken advantage of by people who work for the government. I am bitter that my votes up there were always worthless and a waste of time because of all the brainwashed group think and entitlement mentality. And I am sad that the place where all my lifelong memories are has been ruined and anything that might have resembled the good times experienced in those times gone by is completely gone now. Those aren't things that anyone would be happy about.
Again, too bad if you don't like it. Not my problem and not your place to try to tell people what they are allowed to post.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,280,624 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellamouse
Not sure why you always have to SHOUT. Ridiculous. Your posts don't even really make any sense.
All I know is for some reason, you cannot bear to hear anything negative whatsoever. Tough beans. No one appointed you King and you don't get to decide what other people get to think, feel or post. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. I am not obligated to find anything positive about Chicago or to defend it. It is my job to tell the truth about my own personal experiences, whether they are good or bad.
I am bitter that the liberals ruined Chicago. I am bitter that people who work in the private sector get taken advantage of by people who work for the government. I am bitter that my votes up there were always worthless and a waste of time because of all the brainwashed group think and entitlement mentality. And I am sad that the place where all my lifelong memories are has been ruined and anything that might have resembled the good times experienced in those times gone by is completely gone now. Those aren't things that anyone would be happy about.
Again, too bad if you don't like it. Not my problem and not your place to try to tell people what they are allowed to post.
Well I use CAPS... dots as my style. Enough said. You and Chet seem to take everything to a Political bash fest about the whole city. If something Good for the city is seen, made better, improved. Especially Downtown. It is as if MOCKING ABSOLUTLY EVERYTHING IN THIS CITY A COUPLE HERE DO. It is taken to Political corruption. Who got paid off and too a cut from the cost ect?
No one is BRAINWASHED. I can note the number of District Attorneys and Politicians State Officials and others... in my state PA. too in prison now. How my Hometown is broke, County corrupt too. In a way it is Universal in Politics.
But I merely lived 6 years in the city. You lived virtually a Adult lifetime in the city saying 51 yrs. Yet you SAY NOTHING GOOD ABOUT NY OF THAT TIME? Same with Chet. Who probably made his fortune there? Now dislikes Young Urban Professionals even moving in and comments as if to scare them off many times...
Surely Locals know the city's issues. They are posted in enough threads just by Chet for outsiders to know. But ALWAYS NEGTIVE GETS OLD. NO HOPE AND SKY FALLING.
If others living there or visitors see great Awesome things in a Chicago they live and visit and improvements? Why knock ALL THEM DOWN BY CIRCUMSTANCES that sadly had you move for?
It is your personal business so I won't ask why for sure. But posting political corruption in and negative in every thread anther defends Chicago for something or a improvement.... SHOWS IT'S A PERSONAL VENDETTA. WE GET YOUR ANGER. Just every post and thread...... is much. You surely will continue till you get warned for Rudeness a few times and told to lighten up and get less personal as another who just got back to C-D. Even I got a warning responding to her for me being rude....
Nothing personal meant here toward you. I'm sure you felt a move from the city was as being forced to go... sorry.
I don't think the sky is falling. I think if the COL is 115% greater than the national average, it is probably one of many reasons why Cook County/Chicago takes are obnoxious. I just read a local article that claims Streeterville is the most expensive property in the City of Chicago. It too plays a part in taxes as does the most exclusive enclaves in Chicago/.Cook County.
Chicago, like most large metro areas is very fluid. Who ruined Chicago? To determine this the word "ruin," as it applies only to Chicago, needs to be defined. How is it ruined? Maybe it is the five professional sports teams that cause it? Maybe it is the transpiration system, or the number of airline gates, or Chinatown, or the fifty million visitors to Chicago, that cause it to be ruined? Truthfully, Chicago has more of everything - including poverty, lack of parking space, and unaffordable family entertainment - than any other City, Town, Village, County, Parish, or Township in the Midwest.
If you think Chicago is ruined now, you should have been here around 1970, when the first thing visitors from out of town were told was "stay within four blocks of the lake." Four blocks! This was on the north side. If you went to the south or west side, you were considered crazy.
Maybe conservatives would have done a better job of keeping the city's books balanced, but it's hard to argue that the city has done poorly, even under the watch of crooks and liberal ideologues. No other Midwestern city comes close.
Maybe conservatives would have done a better job of keeping the city's books balanced, but it's hard to argue that the city has done poorly, even under the watch of crooks and liberal ideologues. No other Midwestern city comes close.
If you think Chicago is ruined now, you should have been here around 1970, when the first thing visitors from out of town were told was "stay within four blocks of the lake." Four blocks! This was on the north side. If you went to the south or west side, you were considered crazy.
Maybe conservatives would have done a better job of keeping the city's books balanced, but it's hard to argue that the city has done poorly, even under the watch of crooks and liberal ideologues. No other Midwestern city comes close.
The relative rates of crime in Chicago have bounced around a bit, but one would have to be pretty foolish to suggest there was anything magical going on four blocks from the lake vs five --- Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2012
Forty years ago there were lots of active industrial sites in what are now the retail and entertainment corridors of the north side west of Lincoln Park and Lakeview ...
The areas that are now home to millionaires and jet setting near-millionaire wannabes were pretty regular neighborhoods. The crime was then, like now, confined to pockets of concentrated poverty and lawlessness.
The LOSS OF INDUSTRIAL JOBS is what doomed the retailers and after the former retail sites sat in disuse for a decade or two the redevelopment efforts started -- Projects Cooking On Lincoln Ave. 1989 | tribunedigital-archives If there is lesson in how Chicago can dodge the next downturn it will be in keeping the employment base sufficiently broad-based so that the current red hot areas do not undergo depopulation when the current fixation with fresh-out-of-college job growth goes stale...
If you think Chicago is ruined now, you should have been here around 1970, when the first thing visitors from out of town were told was "stay within four blocks of the lake." Four blocks! This was on the north side. If you went to the south or west side, you were considered crazy.
There were about 800k more people in Chicago back then than now. There were more jobs in Chicago back then than now. The ghetto neighborhoods were much smaller back then. So your story about people being scared going more than four blocks from the lake sounds absurd.
I can only assume you're referring to Lincoln Park/Lakeview/Old Town which had some dicey blocks back then, and don't now. But that's about the least representative area of Chicago one could find. And even LP/Lakeview/OT weren't that bad in 1970; they were just much worse than today.
I don't see personal attacks levied against said poster, but I have seen him call someone a liar on this thread. The thing that I think needs to be asked is why it is homerish to refute something as simple as COL from a private survey based upon evidence from a broad range of data sources: official government, academic, other private sources, a simple zillow/rental search, and the fact of the many people who have lived in both cities known to people on this thread, there has been no evidence of anyone saying, "Man, LA is cheaper than Chicago." As a matter of fact, it universally is the opposite. Private studies are often intended to be provocative through methodological slight of hand. Some private studies. Not all. This is done not because the author wants to say something in particular about Chicago, but because they want to generate buzz. The fact that the estimate debated here cuts against the grain of every other published conclusion raises that possibility.
Either this survey is wrong, or every other survey/study/bit of real world experience is. Take your pick. Someone can make the claim that this study is super comprehensive. Fine. Prove how it is more comprehensive than official government data collected in a more extensive manner or explain why intelligent human beings who move from CHI to LA can't ever seem to find less expensive housing (or even similarly priced housing) in analogous neighborhoods.
You can't just say, well everything else from before is wrong because this is a study that [fill in blank]. That's not how inquiry works. The burden of proof is on the new evidence, not the prevailing body of evidence. So if a poster is inclined to believe it, ask the authors for the data points they used for the housing estimatesand prove it to us. The actual units, characteristics, and locations. Also, don't move the bar and say its unions propping up wages. Not when there is plenty of evidence to suggest that non unionized industries closer to the bottom of the wage scale have similar advantages. Again, that's not how evidence and inquiry works. Your world view doesn't corroborate the data. The data in its entirety, and not just a few random pieces of it, should instead inform your view.
People on a local thread are typically going to defend their city, but I don't see the complete homerism claim. Most people here will agree that relative to the half dozen or so regions CHI is compared to, that CHI has a crime issue. We don't talk about it here because there is nothing else that really needs to be said. The point isn't debatable. Economic growth has been relatively sluggish. The city appears to be over reliant on TIF and there are budget issues. The difference isn't that unions are ruining Chicago or that artisanal mustachioed cheese makers are ruining Chicago. Notice how the poster can conveniently blame the city for simultaneously being too old school/out of touch or too new school like most flagship urban areas of the country at the same time. The difference between CHI and its coastal counterparts is that the Midwest de industrialized later than many other areas because the Midwest has been better positioned to retain manufacturing for longer. It's a growing/transformational pain that you could find in many places that went through the same thing 20 years earlier. Many places are still going through it, many worse than Chicago. Many younger urban areas who were the media darlings 10-15 years ago have grown to the point where they are starting to experience their own issues. Atlanta and Phoenix for instance. Based upon their economic growth the past 10 years, they aren't doing as well. Dallas and Houston are likely to find themselves in the same pickle in the next 10-15 years. I don't wish this on them. It's just the pattern of things as expenses begin to mount, infrastructure isn't as shiny, bills start coming due, and the growth inevitably regresses closer to the norm. China didn't boom forever and neither did the Soviet Union under Stalin or 1980s Japan. Regional economies are the same way. Suddenly the unemployed journeyman tradesman who moved to Houston for work finds himself in Houston, unemployed once again. This time in their dime.
No urban area can be all things to all people, but the perception one gets from the drivel posted here is that Armageddon is upon us and Chicago is nothing to anyone is laughable. It's equal parts PT Barnum and the senile, angry, paranoid guy I have to deal w every time I visit my grandmother at the senior center. It's a tired shtick that is as annoying as the booster who only sees sunshine. Luckily, neither label applies to the vast majority if posters here.
Thanks for the reasonable post in a thread that is silly at this point. Chicago is not the 7th most expensive city in the world, it's not the 7th most expensive in the US.
On a pure cost basis, the Cost Of Living in LA is 130% greater than the national average. Cost of Living in Chicago is 115% great than the national average
Meanwhile, in the land that Rahm wants Chicago to become...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos
Thanks for the reasonable post in a thread that is silly at this point. Chicago is not the 7th most expensive city in the world, it's not the 7th most expensive in the US.
On a pure cost basis, the Cost Of Living in LA is 130% greater than the national average. Cost of Living in Chicago is 115% great than the national average
While the jet setting millionaire wannabes and our precious professional ballet dancer turned political power broker work oh so hard to shout the glories of expanded presence of advertising power house google --
... Manny Cardenas, a 25-year-old part-time security guard who has worked at Google's Mountain View campus for a year and a half, commuting from low-income housing in San Jose. Cardenas earns $16/hour without benefits and has had to rely on a food pantry to care for himself and his daughter. He never gets more than 30 hours a week. ... Cardenas says it is strange being on Google's campus, watching the regular employees drive around on company-supplied bikes and scooters and taking food home.
Ah, the promising future...
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I am not obligated to find anything positive about Chicago or to defend it. It is my job to tell the truth about my own personal experiences, whether they are good or bad.
With all due respect...
