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You're giving me too much credit. I'm not even from Chicago nor have I ever lived in Chicago. I think Chicago has some major issues including an ineffective governor and a fiscal nightmare. If they don't get their crap straightened out and soon it won't bode well for Chicago. But I can also see how it is still, really, better than places like San Francisco. And nothing against Minneapolis but anyone with a brain can appreciate how Chicago and Minneapolis are in different leagues.
I agree about Chicago's fiscal nightmare. That's one of the reasons I left.
Determining whether or not Chicago is better than places like San Francisco is largely based on individual preferences. I was really excited to move to Chicago and thought it would be a great place to live, but living there is very different than visiting. If you ever have the opportunity to live in Chicago, you can judge for yourself. I've never lived in San Francisco, so who knows. For what it's worth, SF seems to be doing something right... their economy is on fire and it's easily one of the most desirable cities in the country. Of course, that brings its own set of problems, but I bet Chicago would love to be equally as desirable.
SF has always been seen as 1000X cooler than Chicago. Whether it was the beatnik generation or today's technocrat hipsters. I don't think anyone on either coast sees Chicago as a place/culture they want to emulate. Even DC is getting more hype than Chicago right now.
People in Chicago seem to have a hard time accepting their decline in prominence.
I never compared it to Chicago, so I'm not sure what you are even responding to exactly. I was speaking about SF now versus years ago. That's it - it has absolutely zero to do with Chicago.
My grandmother grew up in San Francisco, I have family and friends there, and almost my entire father's side, including my father, are from Southern California and they are ones who actually enjoy SF (unlike other people from LA). I grew up visiting California yearly and visiting SF every year along with LA. I also have a cousin who was very high up in California state government pretty recently, though I won't say which one. California was, and is still, my favorite state in the US. SF is one of my favorite cities in the US still and one of only a handful of US cities I'd actually live in. I don't think it's as good as it once was, but it's still good enough to be amongst the top.
And no, I don't think the north side is like SF. The north side of Chicago, for the most part, is its own thing, though in a few sections is like an amalgam of a few other cities in very small sections (none of which are SF). I don't even know how that comparison got started, but it's not true at all.
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,316,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compactspace
'Elite.'
You're right, though. Chicago shouldn't be labelling itself with lesser cities like SF - a sleepy mid-sized town inflated with a bunch of tech money.
I can't help but recall an episode of that '90s TV sitcom "Suddenly Susan", which was set in San Francisco. Someone makes some remark or other about the city, and Brooke Shields replies with, "What? This sleepy little fishing village?"
Statements about Chicago being part SF and part Detroit aren't meant as absolutely literal interpretations. There are actually going to be real social/economic/political/geographic/demographic/etc. differences between the "San Francisco" part of Chicago and San Francisco itself as well as the "Detroit" part of Chicago and Detroit itself.
Rather, it's short hand for the fact that there is a large portion of Chicago that is either doing well or getting better that owes much of it to an influx of educated professionals which in some areas is rubbing up against poor neighborhoods while there is another part of Chicago that is still losing population and still reeling from the long aftermath of the collapse of the industrial and manufacturing sector of the US and has become mostly poor with small pockets of middle class neighborhoods still holding on or possibly slowing growing.
Though maybe a topic that does try to take this a lot more literally might be interesting.
Maybe it'd consist of:
- Determining what blob of Chicago is San Francisco and what blob is Detroit and where they meet/overlap
- Long-winded arguments for why that portion is like San Francisco and why that portion is like Detroit
- Trying to determine what the fractional slit is (1/2 one, 1/2 the other? 1/3 one, 2/3 the other?)
- Make barbs at Chicago, San Francisco, and Detroit at alternating points
I can't help but recall an episode of that '90s TV sitcom "Suddenly Susan", which was set in San Francisco. Someone makes some remark or other about the city, and Brooke Shields replies with, "What? This sleepy little fishing village?"
How I wish episodes of that show were somehow available, whether on DVDs, amazon instant video, netflix. Sadly, it hasn't happened. :-(
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,280,624 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownnola
If Chicago was truly superior, it wouldn't be intimidated by cities like Minneapolis and SF. If it feels that being compared to Minneapolis is a "slap in the face," perhaps it should check its over-inflated ego.
.... Perhaps you need to state what is more vibrant in Minneapolis? I am not getting it? Maybe more White population over all? Less overall crime? Yes especially Southside gangland violence. Maybe more like a small town feel in a larger city? Believable sure....
Minneapolis ..has a alley-system as Chicago has the largest in the world. I here Minneapolis alleys tend to be smaller? But probably they followed Chicago's example? Minneapolis has more underground corridors connecting downtown buildings and others.... more as Toronto? But though can be great in the middle of winter.... it can take from street-level aspects.
Cleanliness.... NO visitor to Downtown Chicago.... goes home NOT NOTING HOW CLEAN IT IS. Especially if they are familiar with NYC.... I find Chicago's neighborhoods to be very clean too. I CAN DEFINATLY say.... cleaner then some East Coast cities... and more and more you here SF is not doing a good job in many parts even tourist see. Of course some considered bad Neighborhoods? A bit less. But still good on my standards..... knowing the East Coast cities. As overall the Midwest I find cleaner. I understand so is Minneapolis.... alleys help both cities probably. Streetview360°s even goes down many neighborhood alleys in Chicago too. They all have the city provided..... Big blue or black trash containers you see in all the alleys.
Sophistication..... again Chicago's core is far from grit and blue-collar industrial one it once was..... it cleaned up like a new penny and aims to impress with its new makeover.... and he is not a ashamed to wear a flower in his lapel today. The city does a GREAT JOB at adding greens and flowers all over the Loop today and hanging off of the reproduction great streetlights throughout the Loop and South Michigan Ave. I like them a lot.... shows a city that DOES AIM TO IMPRESS.
Chicago's lakefront ......impresses ALL and well kept with improvements that keep coming. Additions to make the city a Tourist destination too???? Has been paying off. Navy Pier became a Top attraction on the Whole Midwest and Millennium Park Tourist just love and Free Concerts all summer is impressive too.
Of course YOU should know all this.... when I visit and see the older Gentrified neighborhoods with Older housing restored and brick cleaned and some stunning infill..... it is awesome. I can still go through North-side neighborhoods I knew and the cities Bungalow belt.... it ALL LOOKS GREAT YET.... just northwest side streets are showing their age now.... other then that.... .
I remember how going from some western suburbs into the city even in the 80s yet... was . But through the 90s the city clearing out the worst of the blight and some neighborhoods gained a Latino influx.... they look 1000% better. Even streetview360°s prove it... and finally ALL the Failed High-Rise Housing Projects are gone....
So I am sorry.... but NO ONE is going to tell me the city looks worst or neglected..... NO WAY.
2015 Marks Record Year for Foreign Investment in Chicago Real Estate - Market Reports - Curbed Chicago
Foreign buyers accounted for roughly 16 percent of Chicago's total $20.2 billion of real estate sales this year with 3.27 billion Foreign investments flowing into Chicago's economy in 2015. Chicago now ranks as the fourth largest market in the nation for foreign investment --and trails behind only New York, Los Angeles, and Washington D.C.
More developers are looking to build MORE Single-Homes and Townhouses in the city as the Apartment boom has been a bit overbuilt.
Demand for new single family homes and condos has been high in the Chicagoland area as inventory remains low. In the last 12 months, developers have started or completed the construction of 6,143 new residences — specifically single family homes, townhouses and duplexes.
Chicago Area New Construction at Highest Level in Seven Years - Market Reports - Curbed Chicago
Construction firms started an estimated $11.3 billion in commercial and residential projects in the Chicago area in 2015, up 2 percent from a year earlier and the 5th straight year of increases, Dodge FORCAST A 7% INCREASE IN CONSTRUCTION IN 2016.
Perhaps.... that’s why The Economist Intelligence Unit ranked Chicago among the world’s top 10 most competitive cities for business.
- Determining what blob of Chicago is San Francisco and what blob is Detroit and where they meet/overlap
- Long-winded arguments for why that portion is like San Francisco and why that portion is like Detroit
- Trying to determine what the fractional slit is (1/2 one, 1/2 the other? 1/3 one, 2/3 the other?)
- Make barbs at Chicago, San Francisco, and Detroit at alternating points
This sounds like fun.
Chicago is like the middle-child city. Insecure and earnest. It's like Raphael in the Ninja Turtles.
Now if only it could channel all that desperation into cleaning up its finances and government.
For my money, the 'global city' in Chicago stretches from Cermak to Howard, and has a jagged westerly border consisting of, roughly: Clark, Paterson, Kedzie, Fullerton, California, Chicago and Ashland south to Cermak. Hyde Park is like a colonial island.
That said, the rest isn't all bombed out wasteland. Far from it... but neither is Detroit. In particular, the bungalow neighborhoods like Portage Park are pretty darned nice, if not well-connected.
Chicago is like the middle-child city. Insecure and earnest. It's like Raphael in the Ninja Turtles.
Now if only it could channel all that desperation into cleaning up its finances and government.
For my money, the 'global city' in Chicago stretches from Cermak to Howard, and has a jagged westerly border consisting of, roughly: Clark, Paterson, Kedzie, Fullerton, California, Chicago and Ashland south to Cermak. Hyde Park is like a colonial island.
That said, the rest isn't all bombed out wasteland. Far from it... but neither is Detroit. In particular, the bungalow neighborhoods like Portage Park are pretty darned nice, if not well-connected.
Kind of always felt that Chicago was a good jack of all trades rather than a middle child.
Your global city split sounds pretty good. I think edge it down to 35th St or Pershing instead of Cermak and grab yourself a major league sports stadium, a major convention center, a blue collar neighborhood in the path of gentrification, more coastline, a boat harbor, a research university, a chinatown and a spot of blight that's being eyed as potentially valuable real estate after the decimation of a historically underserved community (these are all very top notch global city attributes).
Also, there's a semi-official map of the current global city combined with where the city (developers?) would like to extend the global city here: https://www.divvybikes.com/stations
Agreed that neither all of Chicago's neighborhoods outside its global city portion nor all of Detroit is bombed out or facing ruin--on the converse side, not all of SF is affluent (especially after COL considerations), densely urban and cosmopolitan. So with that in mind, some split of Chicago into thirds that overlap in and near the Loop would be a third veering north that's SF, a third veering south that's Detroit, and a third going west that's sort of an uncomfortable mix of the non-extremes of the two.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-03-2016 at 11:16 PM..
For my money, the 'global city' in Chicago stretches from Cermak to Howard, and has a jagged westerly border consisting of, roughly: Clark, Paterson, Kedzie, Fullerton, California, Chicago and Ashland south to Cermak. Hyde Park is like a colonial island.
Excellent map, with the small nit pick that Chicago isn't a north/south street, unless there's another Chicago Ave. I don't know about ;-)
I doubt you'll ever see your map in the Chicago Office of Tourism, LOL! But it's pretty darn accurate. Gentrification is expanding the western border between Chicago Ave. and North Ave even west of California in some spots (most notably in Humboldt Park and Logan Square), and Pilsen and Bridgeport are pushing the southern border down to 35th St. in a narrow jut between Ashland and I-90. I think those areas will fill in during the coming years, though for it to go beyond that I think we're going to need a stronger economy as discussed above.
I don't think the Divvy map is a good guide. Maybe it was early on but now, due to political pressure, there're in most places in the City, including Englewood, which few would argue is part of the "Global City."
Excellent map, with the small nit pick that Chicago isn't a north/south street, unless there's another Chicago Ave. I don't know about ;-)
I doubt you'll ever see your map in the Chicago Office of Tourism, LOL! But it's pretty darn accurate. Gentrification is expanding the western border between Chicago Ave. and North Ave even west of California in some spots (most notably in Humboldt Park and Logan Square), and Pilsen and Bridgeport are pushing the southern border down to 35th St. in a narrow jut between Ashland and I-90. I think those areas will fill in during the coming years, though for it to go beyond that I think we're going to need a stronger economy as discussed above.
I don't think the Divvy map is a good guide. Maybe it was early on but now, due to political pressure, there're in most places in the City, including Englewood, which few would argue is part of the "Global City."
If I'm reading compactspace's post correctly, the boundaries that he's referring to are alternating North/South and East/West streets (with a typo for Peterson) so he's still making a connected and contiguous map. On further thought of the map, it probably makes some sense for that global city definition to go past Chicago's borders to take in more urban parts of Evanston that would include the Purple Line transit stations, downtown Evanston, and Northwestern University.
If I'm reading my own previous post correctly, the Divvy map isn't just inclusive of the current global city, but also where Chicago's city planners and developers are looking to expand the global city in the near future. This includes a slight edging of the current western boundaries to include areas that are being primed for gentrification through their current proximity to the global city as it currently stands as well as connecting the southward expansion of the Loop and the expanding bubble that's centered on the University of Chicago especially near the transit stations in between and the lakefront. If the city really wants to fast track that, they have a pretty easy in by implementing the Gold Line plan and adding one or two in-fill stations between the 27th St and 47th St stations currently of the Metra Electric Line and re-expanding the Green Line past Cottage Grove on 63rd St stations to meet up with the new 63rd St Gold Line station. Put those in place and redevelop with transit-oriented development in all the rough patches inside the Divvy map boundaries plus adding the urban core of Evanston and you'll get an urban global city that encompasses nearly every major park and institution of Chicago's core. Doing that would probably take at least a couple decades though.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-04-2016 at 08:48 AM..
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.... Perhaps you need to state what is more vibrant in Minneapolis? I am not getting it? Maybe more White population over all? Less overall crime? Yes especially Southside gangland violence. Maybe more like a small town feel in a larger city? Believable sure....
and he is not a ashamed to wear a flower in his lapel today. 
. 
. But through the 90s the city clearing out the worst of the blight and some neighborhoods gained a Latino influx.... they look 1000% better. Even streetview360°s prove it... and finally ALL the Failed High-Rise Housing Projects are gone.... 
