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People love to be righteous until they actually have to step up and deliver results. Then it is someone else's problem.
High level rant:
There are serious issues effecting the black community in Chicago and the U.S. in general. Centuries of slavery and oppression have resulted in black Americans in positions of poverty and without the tools to escape. Everyone always says "Group X from Y European Country did it, they should be able to too!" The fact of the matter is when you look like the person in a position of power, it's much easier to become the individual in the position of power. Institutionalized racism and deindustrialization have prevented blacks from climbing the social latter.
The problem today, though, are two areas where write liberals fear to tred: absurdly high out of wedlock birth rates and high school dropout rates in inner city areas.
White liberals will simply not discuss these issues out of, one, a vague fear of appearing racist; two, it is less psychologically satisfying for them than their preferred narrative; three, increasingly, it is now considered bigoted to suggest that a child be raised with a mother and a father.
This frankly isn't going to change at this point without some massive government intervention that changes entitlement structures and imposes massively punitive punishments on "parents" e.g.; half of your income going to the kid and mother for 20 years, the complete dismantling of means tested welfare programs, etc.
Or you say forget the culture and enact far more extreme law enforcement programs; e.g., 25 year mandatory sentences at a gulag out in the desert for gun crimes.
Neither of these solutions is likely to take place anytime soon despite the rise of Trump-ism so you can pretty much expect things to go on exactly as they are, with everyone wringing their hands, doing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, hundreds of kids will continue to die per year; thousands will be shot; tens of thousands of lives will be ruined.
The problem today, though, are two areas where write liberals fear to tred: absurdly high out of wedlock birth rates and high school dropout rates in inner city areas.
White liberals will simply not discuss these issues out of, one, a vague fear of appearing racist; two, it is less psychologically satisfying for them than their preferred narrative; three, increasingly, it is now considered bigoted to suggest that a child be raised with a mother and a father.
This frankly isn't going to change at this point without some massive government intervention that changes entitlement structures and imposes massively punitive punishments on "parents" e.g.; half of your income going to the kid and mother for 20 years, the complete dismantling of means tested welfare programs, etc.
Or you say forget the culture and enact far more extreme law enforcement programs; e.g., 25 year mandatory sentences at a gulag out in the desert for gun crimes.
Neither of these solutions is likely to take place anytime soon despite the rise of Trump-ism so you can pretty much expect things to go on exactly as they are, with everyone wringing their hands, doing absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, hundreds of kids will continue to die per year; thousands will be shot; tens of thousands of lives will be ruined.
Teen Pregnancy rates have been dropping since the 1990s even in Chicago's inner city.
Although teen pregnancy remains a problem in many impoverished rural areas and inner city locations, a recent study from the United States Center for Disease Control and Prevention indicates that teen births dropped by up to 15 percent in all states with the exception of North Dakota and West Virginia during the period of 2007 to 2011. Teen pregnancy rates in Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Idaho and Colorado fell by more than 30 percent.
The common public image of teen pregnancy as a serious social problem is counterintuitive to two facts. First, rates have been falling for over a decade for all teenagers and especially for minor Black teenagers (Martin et al., 2009), until recently when they have begun to fluctuate (Hamilton, Martin, & Ventura, 2010; Martin et al., 2009). Second, most births to pregnant teenare to adults. In addition, scholars have made convincing arguments that poverty is a cause rather than a result of teenage pregnancy (Furstenberg, 2007; Geronimus, 1991; Luker, 1996; Wilson, 1987), and any unfortunate outcomes after a teen pregnancy are small, if any, after isolating them from the effects of poverty.3 Some of the outcomes explored in the literature are the health, cognitive development, and antisocial behavior of the children of teenage mothers. The education and economic circumstances of the teenage mothers and the use of public assistance by the teenage mothers are also explored (Geronimus, 2003).
This frankly isn't going to change at this point without some massive government intervention that changes entitlement structures and imposes massively punitive punishments on "parents" e.g.; half of your income going to the kid and mother for 20 years, the complete dismantling of means tested welfare programs, etc.
Or you say forget the culture and enact far more extreme law enforcement programs; e.g., 25 year mandatory sentences at a gulag out in the desert for gun crimes.
Your first solution, all you've done is create a disincentive to work. The guy who finds himself in this situation, with you making sure that 1/2 of his pittance salary has to go to the child and mother, will eventually say "screw it" and stop working above board and instead head towards the black market, where his income is not traceable.
As to your second point, the USA already has the highest incarceration rates in the world. And we've created a situation where we have a huge ex felon population that can't vote, can't get real jobs, can't contribute to society.
Your solutions are all about punishment, but you can't punish everyone. At some point you need to prevent, not punish.
I-65 is a gun pipeline. Indiana is pro-gun and a northward extension of The South and their values. The South Side borders Indiana. Absent a border checkpoint on the Illinois state line, the South Side's violence will continue.
You can't be serious.
So you're blaming the gun when people are shooting each other?
With your gun logic, gun violence outside of places which have strict gun control would be out of control. Where are the mass shootings in places that have less gun control? Look at where shootings typically happen: in places where guns are outlawed and therefore only the outlaws have guns. Schools, movie theaters, etc.
High level rant:
There are serious issues effecting the black community in Chicago and the U.S. in general. Centuries of slavery and oppression have resulted in black Americans in positions of poverty and without the tools to escape. Everyone always says "Group X from Y European Country did it, they should be able to too!" The fact of the matter is when you look like the person in a position of power, it's much easier to become the individual in the position of power. Institutionalized racism and deindustrialization have prevented blacks from climbing the social latter.
Sorry but this is always the same tired excuse that is trotted out everytime blacks are in the news for doing something bad.
As an American who's lived a number of years in Toronto, I see the EXACT same behavior from blacks up here that I did in the US. All the crime and shootings and stabbings here almost always it involves blacks either as the perpetrator and/or as the victim. The thing is Canada DOES NOT have a history of oppressing or enslaving blacks and yet black communities here are just as messed up as they are in the US. And also many black immigrants who arrive in Canada also fall into this same crime and violence trap even though no other immigrant group that arrives here falls into that kind of trap.
So how is it that blacks whether they're born in Canada or immigrated here are violent and criminal at a very high rate compared to non-blacks whether born in immigrated here are all mostly NOT violent and criminal? CLEARLY this shows that slavery and oppression and all that crap ARE JUST EASY COPOUT EXCUSES to justify and explain bad black behavior when Canada in the absense of oppressing and enslaving blacks in any significant way STILL has the same problems with blacks as the US does with their black population.
Toronto this year has seen a rise in murders, shootings and stabbings involving blacks and yet the black community has said very little about it until just in the past few days when an innocent pregnant black woman was shot dead in a car and her unborn baby had to be c-sectioned out of her to be saved. It took an extreme incident like that to finally get some black people to speak up about the violence and EVEN THEN they STILL won't take responsibility for what's happening in their neighborhoods. NO its about blacks not receiving enough help, blacks not having enough opportunities to escape violence and of police not doing enough to stop the violence in their communities etc.
NOTHING about how blacks are still failing to raise their kids properly and keeping them away from bad elements in their communities and how many times they still refuse to rat out the bad people in their neighborhoods. The bottom line is blacks need to start taking responsibility for their actions rather than blaming everyone for their problems and then and only then will things have a chance at improving for the longterm.
The problem today, though, are two areas where write liberals fear to tred: absurdly high out of wedlock birth rates and high school dropout rates in inner city areas.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Something I'd add is that the the former is a cause of the latter, and the sad fact is that a majority of the black community simply DOES NOT CARE about the ridiculous OOW birthrate. To be fair though, while this problem is exacerbated within the black community, this problem is an overall class issue as OOW birthrates have substantially climbed for all lower class demographics.
As well, I wrote this on another post regarding the idea of "systemic racism" while ignoring family structure...
Still, no one has ever explained to me how the OOW birthrate for blacks has absolutely ballooned AFTER civil rights, desegregation and affirmative action (I have my own thoughts that can be bolstered with tertiary academic work). Should this magically be attributed to "systemic racism" as well? I'm pretty no one has ever systemically made anyone else have sex while not using protection or birth control, and this is all with black women being ~5x more likely to have an abortion than a white woman. As well, there has been a planned parenthood in most poor urban (black and white) communities for decades now, and most urban public schools LITERALLY hand out contraceptives on a whim (which I agree with), yet the OOW birthrate has still gone up! It is well documented that single parenthood and OOW birth, across all races, is a direct cause of becoming poor, staying poor, staying uneducated and increasing criminality, and these issues should be of grave concern to the black community but they are not.
But like I said before, it isn't necessarily a race issue, but more of a class issue, though I guess "systemic racism" sounds catchy. I'll let you in on a little secret of successful, solidly middle class+ people, whether black, white, brown, asian...they all are EXTREMELY aware of the stigma, both socially and economically, associated with OOW children, divorce and single parenthood. While divorce rates and OOW birthrates in this country have risen greatly over the last 50 years, this disproportionately has affected the lower class. Once family income rise above $100,000 OOW birth and divorce rates drop precipitously. Once family income is >$200,000 these rates hover around single digits!
This is a concept that is well understood by many people yet not openly discussed for obvious reasons.
Last edited by EffortPoaster; 05-23-2016 at 08:28 AM..
Sorry but this is always the same tired excuse that is trotted out everytime blacks are in the news for doing something bad.
As an American who's lived a number of years in Toronto, I see the EXACT same behavior from blacks up here that I did in the US. All the crime and shootings and stabbings here almost always it involves blacks either as the perpetrator and/or as the victim. The thing is Canada DOES NOT have a history of oppressing or enslaving blacks and yet black communities here are just as messed up as they are in the US. And also many black immigrants who arrive in Canada also fall into this same crime and violence trap even though no other immigrant group that arrives here falls into that kind of trap.
So how is it that blacks whether they're born in Canada or immigrated here are violent and criminal at a very high rate compared to non-blacks whether born in immigrated here are all mostly NOT violent and criminal? CLEARLY this shows that slavery and oppression and all that crap ARE JUST EASY COPOUT EXCUSES to justify and explain bad black behavior when Canada in the absense of oppressing and enslaving blacks in any significant way STILL has the same problems with blacks as the US does with their black population.
Toronto this year has seen a rise in murders, shootings and stabbings involving blacks and yet the black community has said very little about it until just in the past few days when an innocent pregnant black woman was shot dead in a car and her unborn baby had to be c-sectioned out of her to be saved. It took an extreme incident like that to finally get some black people to speak up about the violence and EVEN THEN they STILL won't take responsibility for what's happening in their neighborhoods. NO its about blacks not receiving enough help, blacks not having enough opportunities to escape violence and of police not doing enough to stop the violence in their communities etc.
NOTHING about how blacks are still failing to raise their kids properly and keeping them away from bad elements in their communities and how many times they still refuse to rat out the bad people in their neighborhoods. The bottom line is blacks need to start taking responsibility for their actions rather than blaming everyone for their problems and then and only then will things have a chance at improving for the longterm.
Your post indicates you harbor some tense feelings towards black people. Black people in the U.S. and Canada have experienced similar degrees of discrimination. It's funny that you find foreign-born blacks to be just as "thuggish" as native born ones. I have had quite the opposite experience. Most foreign-born blacks I meet in the U.S. are very driven and understand that education is the key to success in a modern world. Most native born blacks are born into communities that lack the tools or access to jobs that enable them to escape the grips of poverty. No one wants to be poor. No one wants to live in a neighborhood where you could get shot any day. Your roundabout way of saying that black people are just lazy and don't work is false. Many do work...just very low wage jobs that can't possibly get them ahead.
Systematic racism has undoubtedly had an effect on blacks in NA acquiring wealth and climbing the social ladder.
So you're blaming the gun when people are shooting each other?
To some extent, yeah.
The main reason that the U.S. has so many homicides is because guns are so readily available.
Humans are at fault too, but no one would argue "but you're blaming nukes when people control the nukes". Yeah, people are necessary to make the nukes lethal, but that doesn't mean that nukes = puppies. They're dangerous and need to be controlled. You aren't going to give people mustard gas, surface-to-air missiles and cluster bombs just because they're harmless without human intervention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army_Guy
With your gun logic, gun violence outside of places which have strict gun control would be out of control.
And indeed they are. The most violent states in the U.S. are those with the weakest gun controls (the South). The safest major city in the U.S., NYC, has very strict controls for U.S. standards. The safest region in the U.S., the Northeast/New England, has the strictest gun controls.
If you want fewer dead people in the U.S., you need stricter gun controls. Simple as that. Also wouldn't hurt to have the feds label the NRA as a terrorist organization, as they certainly fit the requirements.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Something I'd add is that the the former is a cause of the latter, and the sad fact is that a majority of the black community simply DOES NOT CARE about the ridiculous OOW birthrate. To be fair though, while this problem is exacerbated within the black community, this problem is an overall class issue as OOW birthrates have substantially climbed for all lower class demographics.
OOW births have nothing to do with gun violence. Sweden has a higher rate of OOW births than the U.S. People don't kill other people because Mommy and Daddy weren't married when they were born.
And teen births/low income births/African American births have all been plummeting in recent years.
The main reason that the U.S. has so many homicides is because guns are so readily available.
Humans are at fault too, but no one would argue "but you're blaming nukes when people control the nukes". Yeah, people are necessary to make the nukes lethal, but that doesn't mean that nukes = puppies. They're dangerous and need to be controlled. You aren't going to give people mustard gas, surface-to-air missiles and cluster bombs just because they're harmless without human intervention.
And indeed they are. The most violent states in the U.S. are those with the weakest gun controls (the South). The safest major city in the U.S., NYC, has very strict controls for U.S. standards. The safest region in the U.S., the Northeast/New England, has the strictest gun controls.
If you want fewer dead people in the U.S., you need stricter gun controls. Simple as that. Also wouldn't hurt to have the feds label the NRA as a terrorist organization, as they certainly fit the requirements.
Wow. I agree with all of this.
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