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Not to mention having a "half black" business partner gets him access to a certain pool of money (p.s. there are no "half blacks" in America), and hiring minorities has its financial benefits. Let's not pretend he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart. The disdain you have for your workers is evident.
The amount of excuses are incredible. Since we are going down this path, here is the deal:
1. All cash, no benefits: were talking about, at most, 8 hours a week of work. Would you provide benefits to a neighbor kid cutting your lawn?
2. As for the Alderman, when you apply for permits and work with your Alderman, they ask if you can hire minority workers, if feasible, that's as far as it goes.
3. I've never hired an illegal immigrant, ever (unless they forged docs); I typically hire: Mexican Immigrants, Polish Immigrants, College Kids (lots of college kids), and African Americans typically from Humbold Park or Lawndale (as that is where my half black partner/brother in law is from)
100% of the AA's haven't worked out, for whatever reason, they collect their money and I never see them again. They are not treated any differently, in fact, they are typically the only ones on site; I haven't had problems with any other group of people...ever.
What is my point? I'm not sure, but I truly believe a big part of the AA culture (at least in Chicago) is to play the victim card and avoid work, I know that is harsh, but I truly believe that, and I see it with my own eyes. Of course not everyone is like that, but I'll be damned if I haven't received most of them with my business.
The amount of excuses are incredible. Since we are going down this path, here is the deal:
1. All cash, no benefits: were talking about, at most, 8 hours a week of work. Would you provide benefits to a neighbor kid cutting your lawn?
There's the devil in the details I was looking for.
So you pay your workers less than they would make working at McDonalds?
Are you assuming your labor pool can't do basic math?
You get **** labor because you hire at a **** rate!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
2. As for the Alderman, when you apply for permits and work with your Alderman, they ask if you can hire minority workers, if feasible, that's as far as it goes.
I find that difficult to believe... Many municipal projects are subject to MWBE mandates if they receive any city funding.
I don't know if your projects do so I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
3. I've never hired an illegal immigrant, ever (unless they forged docs); I typically hire: Mexican Immigrants, Polish Immigrants, College Kids (lots of college kids), and African Americans typically from Humboldt Park or Lawndale (as that is where my half black partner/brother in law is from)
If you pay them cash, does it really matter that they're illegal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
100% of the AA's haven't worked out, for whatever reason, they collect their money and I never see them again. They are not treated any differently, in fact, they are typically the only ones on site; I haven't had problems with any other group of people...ever.
I think they've realized they'd be better off looking for part-time work in fast food... Or maybe they go off to community college. Maybe they get into gang violence. Maybe they just didn't want to carry bricks.
There's a plethora of reasons for any candidate not to want to be employed doing this work...
Isn't this the kind of work construction workers do and get paid UNION checks for (I'm outrageously simplifying that)? What makes you think you're going to get any kind of long term labor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
What is my point? I'm not sure, but I truly believe a big part of the AA culture (at least in Chicago) is to play the victim card and avoid work, I know that is harsh, but I truly believe that, and I see it with my own eyes. Of course not everyone is like that, but I'll be damned if I haven't received most of them with my business.
You either get s*** people because you give sh** conditions and labor. It's nearly evident.
I'd ask who your alderman was to get more details because this is worth submitting to a local newspaper to investigate but I respect online anonymity.
There's the devil in the details I was looking for.
So you pay your workers less than they would make working at McDonalds?
Are you assuming your labor pool can't do basic math?
You get **** labor because you hire at a **** rate!
Correction: I get **** AA labor, I actually get fantastic workers, many of whom have done dozens of projects with me. I'm happy for the AA's if they can get better jobs, though I doubt that is the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARaider08
I find that difficult to believe... Many municipal projects are subject to MWBE mandates if they receive any city funding.
I don't know if your projects do so I don't know.
Not sure what you are talking about, I'm simply applying for a permit, where in fact, I am the one paying. Not sure what is hard to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARaider08
If you pay them cash, does it really matter that they're illegal?
Someone else brought up Illegal's and their willingness to work in certain conditions an American wouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARaider08
I think they've realized they'd be better off looking for part-time work in fast food... Or maybe they go off to community college. Maybe they get into gang violence. Maybe they just didn't want to carry bricks.
There's a plethora of reasons for any candidate not to want to be employed doing this work...
Isn't this the kind of work construction workers do and get paid UNION checks for? What makes you think you're going to get any kind of long term labor?
Well I'm glad the African American community has resolved their problems, and they can all turn down the work. Again, I have long term labor, in fact majority of my guys are long term...except for the African Americans that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARaider08
You either get s*** people because you give sh** conditions and labor. It's nearly evident.
I'd ask who your alderman was to get more details because this is worth submitting to a local newspaper to investigate but I respect online anonymity.
Oh the horror, filling up a wheelbarrow with bricks and moving them to a tarp; and sweeping and picking up garbage. I only did similar labor for 4 years in college and all through high school.
My god are you dramatic, and in denial of the reality that is going on in Black Communities, but blame me, the one who is willing to give work to teenage and 20 something African American's who don't have much else going on in their lives (according to them)
Correction: I get **** AA labor, I actually get fantastic workers, many of whom have done dozens of projects with me. I'm happy for the AA's if they can get better jobs, though I doubt that is the case. [Missing quote]
Not sure what you are talking about, I'm simply applying for a permit, where in fact, I am the one paying. Not sure what is hard to believe.
Are you receiving any money from the city for these projects or are contractually obligated to the City?
If so, then they're usually subject to MWBE compliance measures.
If not, then they don't apply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
Well I'm glad the African American community has resolved their problems, and they can all turn down the work. Again, I have long term labor, in fact majority of my guys are long term...except for the African Americans that is.
Oh the horror, filling up a wheelbarrow with bricks and moving them to a tarp; and sweeping and picking up garbage. I only did similar labor for 4 years in college and all through high school.
My god are you dramatic[/quote]
I believe you're the one dramatizing. Even if it's sarcastic. If you give your laborers only 8 hours per week. You pay your employees LESS than the minimum wage they could make elsewhere. You make it real easy to leave.
Gonna just ignore that, huh?
Isn't that illegal or is that why you pay them in cash?
You're a crap employer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
and in denial of the reality that is going on in Black Communities, but blame me, the one who is willing to give work to teenage and 20 something African American's who don't have much else going on in their lives (according to them)
Comments like these are why you deserve the label "ignorant."
Do you traverse other message boards targeting heroin or meth usage in rural America with the same prejudice?
Before placing labels where they don't belong consider how ignorant you sound.
Are you receiving any money from the city for these projects or are contractually obligated to the City?
If so, then they're usually subject to MWBE compliance measures.
If not, then they don't apply.
Oh the horror, filling up a wheelbarrow with bricks and moving them to a tarp; and sweeping and picking up garbage. I only did similar labor for 4 years in college and all through high school.
My god are you dramatic
I believe you're the one dramatizing. Even if it's sarcastic. If you give your laborers only 8 hours per week. You pay your employees LESS than the minimum wage they could make elsewhere. You make it real easy to leave.
Gonna just ignore that, huh?
Isn't that illegal or is that why you pay them in cash?
You're a crap employer.
Comments like these are why you deserve the label "ignorant."
Do you traverse other message boards targeting heroin or meth usage in rural America with the same prejudice?
Before placing labels where they don't belong consider how ignorant you sound.[/quote]
__________________________________________________ __________
I don't receive any money from the city, are you familiar with the permit process in Chicago?
How is giving someone 8 hrs a week any different than paying someone to tend to my lawn once a week or a handyman to fix something in my house when it needs fixing? How is this job any different? Seriously how is it any different? I own and rehab upwards of 10 projects at a time in the city, and need short term labor, is this a foreign concept to you?
There are lots of losers out there, many of whom are white and drugged out. I grew up in a poor neighborhood of Manhattan, I've seen them all within a block of my house. I'm not sure how that is relevant, stupidity isn't exclusive to Blacks, but they sure do seem to make up the majority in Chicago. Can you deny that?
Would YOU work for your business for 8 hours a week?! Who can support themselves on 8 hours of work a week??? Yo think these people should be happy you've given them an opportunity. 8 hours a week is basically one day a week. Immigrants usually do things like pool money because they have to. Black Americans were born here and shouldn't have to live like immigrants.
I believe you're the one dramatizing. Even if it's sarcastic.
How is giving someone 8 hrs a week any different than paying someone to tend to my lawn once a week or a handyman to fix something in my house when it needs fixing? How is this job any different? Seriously how is it any different? I own and rehab upwards of 10 projects at a time in the city, and need short term labor, is this a foreign concept to you?
I don't have the exact data but I know from experience dealing with plumbers and other laborers who work with their hands on various projects that Handymen usually charge FAR more than $14... You're not keeping up with market rates for even menial labor and the clientele you do keep seem too naive to know...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast
There are lots of losers out there, many of whom are white and drugged out. I grew up in a poor neighborhood of Manhattan, I've seen them all within a block of my house. I'm not sure how that is relevant, stupidity isn't exclusive to Blacks, but they sure do seem to make up the majority in Chicago. Can you deny that?
You and and many other people else grew up in a poor neighborhood. Get over yourself.
Refuting or accepting that only serves a binary purpose.
That's a simple answer to a complicated problem.
Caustic. Ignorant and caustic is the label you really deserve.
Would YOU work for your business for 8 hours a week?! Who can support themselves on 8 hours of work a week??? Yo think these people should be happy you've given them an opportunity. 8 hours a week is basically one day a week. Immigrants usually do things like pool money because they have to. Black Americans were born here and shouldn't have to live like immigrants.
Yes, I've worked for someone like me for 8 years, plus several other odd jobs all at the same time. I hire many non immigrants too; why are blacks any different? Why are they special? Why shouldn't they have to live like immigrants? The immigrants are the ones working hard? Perhaps the blacks can take a couple pages out of the immigrant book, no?
I don't have the exact data but I know from experience dealing with plumbers and other laborers who work with their hands on various projects that Handymen usually charge FAR more than $14... You're not keeping up with market rates for even menial labor and the clientele you do keep seem too naive to know...
You and and many other people else grew up in a poor neighborhood. Get over yourself.
Refuting or accepting that only serves a binary purpose.
That's a simple answer to a complicated problem.
Caustic. Ignorant and caustic is the label you really deserve.
Continue to make excuses and name call. I'm renovating $19M worth of property at the moment, and pay simple dumb labor at a rate that I never have trouble filling a job, I know what i'm doing.
You can make whatever excuses you want, the reality is, and my initial point many posts ago, is that the Black Community has major problems, many of them are self inflicted, and the poor me attitude is pathetic. Get and Keep a job, and take care of yourself. Why is that so hard?
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