Chicago more like 3 biggest East Coast cities OR 3 biggest Midwest cities (Pittsburg: transplants, gated)

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

Not all counties and other general annexations are created equal though. Philadelphia, for example, has 134.1 sq miles of land. Indianapolis has 365.1 sq miles of land. For comparison's sake, New York City has 304.8 sq miles of land and Chicago has 227.3. Columbus has 217.17 sq miles of land. I was mistaken about Columbus having merged with its county, but it has annexed a great deal of land in the previous few decades.

My point was that, on paper, these cities appear larger in terms of population, but that's because they consolidated and or annexed to the point that they now include many suburban areas, and in some cases, even undeveloped areas.

Indianapolis might have 853k people in its city proper, but its MSA is 1,756,000. The Twin Cities' MSA is 3.5 million people.

Ok. However they are still the largest non Great Lakes Midwest cities regardless of how they got that way. We are talking about now.

I do suppose MSP can be a great contender. It would certainly skew the list and make this topic more confusing! Considering how unique it is in its own way for the census region it is in (because Upper Midwest isn't a region)

[Nafster]

While it's totally different than New York, it's definitely more similar to East Coast cities than it is to those other three Midwestern cities.

[FAReastcoast]

Originally Posted by Nafster

While it's totally different than New York, it's definitely more similar to East Coast cities than it is to those other three Midwestern cities.

This. This thread is like asking is a dog more similar to a chicken or a television? Obviously a chicken, but not really similar to either.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Philly is coterminous with its own county...

Is Columbus???

No. Columbus, although mostly in Franklin County, spills over into Delaware County nowadays as well, due to many annexations.

Nor is all of Franklin County Columbus. You have other municipalities such as Bexley, Whitehall, Grandview Heights, etc. Nowadays many older suburbs are totally surrounded by the city due to expansion and annexation.

In this respect, Columbus is more like a typical Sunbelt city than like most older Midwestern and Northeastern cities which grew much earlier and became landlocked by their suburbs early on. There are suburban sprawl areas within the Columbus city limits that would closely resemble, say, Schaumburg in the Chicagoland area.

[K 22]

While it's not a US city, I think Chicago is more like an American Toronto.

[thefallensrvnge]

Chicago will relate to New York mostly because of its status as a big city and being a major center of culture and denser nature. However, Chicago absolutely relates to heartland cities as well. Chicago and KC were (and are) major centers of agriculture, railroads, and were cradles for music during the Jazz Age. Both were know for their stockyards and were important nodes during western expansion. But Chicago and New York share a long history as America's titans during the Industrial Age.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by thefallensrvnge

Chicago will relate to New York mostly because of its status as a big city and being a major center of culture and denser nature. However, Chicago absolutely relates to heartland cities as well. Chicago and KC were (and are) major centers of agriculture, railroads, and were cradles for music during the Jazz Age. Both were know for their stockyards and were important nodes during western expansion. But Chicago and New York share a long history as America's titans during the Industrial Age.

New York eventually became the contender to Chicago for the Jazz Age, not Kansas City. It is true New York was late in the jazz game, but to discount their presence is tantamount to blasphemy. Jazz sort of made an inverted L shape, going from NOLA to Chicago, to New York

I suspect that Duke Ellington’s decision to move from Washington, D.C., to Harlem in the early 1920s—in retrospect, a turning point in jazz history—was spurred by the vibrancy of the local piano tradition. At that juncture, Chicago still would have been the favored destination for most aspiring jazz talents, but as a professional pianist immersed in the stride tradition, Ellington had different priorities.

Soon, others followed in Ellington’s footsteps.

As New York grew more familiar with vice and alcohol-fueled nightlife in the late 1920s, under the benign supervision of Mayor Walker, a host of jazz stars left Chicago for Manhattan.

In 1928, Ben Pollack moved his successful jazz orchestra from Chicago’s Southmoor Hotel to New York, where he settled into a residency at the Park Central Hotel. Band member Benny Goodman, a native Chicagoan and the most successful musician from that city during the Swing Era, found frequent work in the New York studios, and never looked back. Louis Armstrong had made a brief stay in New York to join Fletcher Henderson’s band in 1924. He soon retreated to Chicago, but his triumphant Manhattan return in 1929 to perform in the Hot Chocolates revue proved a milestone in his career. Armstrong bought a house in Queens, and kept it as his home base for the last 28 years of his life.

By 1930, New York had replaced Chicago as the center of the jazz world. For a brief spell, Kansas City looked like a contender, but that city couldn’t hold on to its talent. The most important band in Kansas City jazz, Count Basie’s hot orchestra, with sax icon Lester Young in its horn section, set up a new home base at the Woodside Hotel in Queens in 1937 and was soon drawing dazzling audiences at the Roseland Ballroom, Savoy Ballroom, and Apollo Theater. A few months later, saxophonist Charlie Parker—the greatest jazz talent to come out of Kansas City—also relocated to Gotham. By then, the verdict was clear: those who aspired to jazz stardom had to prove their mettle in Manhattan.

Excerpt from: How New York City Became the Epicenter of Jazz | | Observer

[thefallensrvnge]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

New York eventually became the contender to Chicago for the Jazz Age, not Kansas City. It is true New York was late in the jazz game, but to discount their presence is tantamount to blasphemy. Jazz sort of made an inverted L shape, going from NOLA to Chicago, to New York



Excerpt from: How New York City Became the Epicenter of Jazz | | Observer

Who could be crazy enough to say Jazz wasn't important to New York? I wouldn't. I was pointing out that people assume there's a connection between NYC and Chicago as major centers of music, but this is also a connection Chicago has to other Midwestern cities which had active music scenes in the Jazz Age as well.

New York and Jazz is a given, just like with NOLA.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by thefallensrvnge

Who could be crazy enough to say Jazz wasn't important to New York? I wouldn't. I was pointing out that people assume there's a connection between NYC and Chicago as major centers of music, but this is also a connection Chicago has to other Midwestern cities which had active music scenes in the Jazz Age as well.

New York and Jazz is a given, just like with NOLA.

Ok just making sure. Good points you make!

[BigLake]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Aside from Milwaukee, I think Chicago is more like the Northeastern cities than any Midwestern city.

Agree. Maybe a little bit of Detroit too.