Chicago more like 3 biggest East Coast cities OR 3 biggest Midwest cities (Springfield: move, suburbs)

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Notice how none of those hot dogs has ketchup. I don't understand Chicagoans obsession to tell everyone we don't put ketchup on hot dogs. Neither of those other cities did. It annoys the ever living s h i t out of me. You want a cookie, Chicago? You want a cookie for doing something that everyone else does but doesn't feel the need to brag about? I feel like choking people who say that.

P.s. I don't put ketchup on my hot dogs, either. Just annoys me that Chicagoans pay no attention and realize the majority of the country also doesn't.

Yes, I've always found it odd that people consider the no-mustard-on-hot dogs thing to be a Chicago thing when it's more of a basic culinary flavor thing. I grew up far, far away from Chicago and always knew that only children put ketchup on hot dogs. I think that's fairly universal.

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by adebord

I have lived in Philly and Kansas City.

Chicago is much more like K.C. Both were designed in the bella arts movement. NE cities have older infrastructure, smaller streets (pre car) and tighter density.

You don't think most of the city of Chicago's infrastructure was designed pre-car? You might be confusing it with Houston, Phoenix, or L.A.

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Cincinnati is the Midwestern equivalent of Pittsburgh

While it's quite easy (and logical) to say Ohio is in the Midwest and Pennsylvania is on the east coast, when it comes to individual cities it's far less simple. Pittsburgh is far more Midwestern than it is East Coast, and Cincinnati is pretty much right on the border of the Midwest and South. Both cities are really as Appalachian as they are Eastern or Midwestern, too, for that matter.

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Buffalo: Cleveland

Similarly, I think it's a weird artificial distinction to call Buffalo "Northeastern" just because it's in the state of New York and Cleveland "Midwestern" just because it's in Ohio. It's not like we're comparing Boston to Omaha here. Buffalo is REALLY far from the East Coast (not unlike Pittsburgh), and is in fact on the same lake as Cleveland, with just arbitrary state lines separating them. Both are not only Great Lakes cities (same region, for all practical purposes) but actually very close-to-each-other Great Lakes cities (as opposed to, say, Green Bay or Duluth).

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

People like to think that Chicago and New York have very few structural similarities. But honestly, I think that has been hugely blown out of proportion. Here are pics of Chicago and New York neighborhoods that look almost identical. These aren't trendy, strip mall Americana built up in the 21st century places.

Very well illustrated, and good points. I tried to give you rep points, but apparently I need to "spread it around" beyond the 20 or 30 people I've repped so far before I'm allowed to rep you again? Confusing.

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by HumboldtBottle

If you were to change the Midwestern cities to, say, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and St. Louis (or possibly even Detroit), then I might see the similarities with Chicago in terms of history as major shipping ports, immigration patterns, architecture, infrastructure, etc. Kansas City arguably has something similar to that on a smaller scale, but Indianapolis and Columbus do not, IMO.

In other words, the Great Lakes cities and major river port cities have certain historical ties to east coast cities that other Midwestern cities do not have.

Or, if you prefer, think of the cities that had major league baseball teams before 1950 as a rough indicator.

Particularly well stated. Not sure why I'm unable to rep you or why your post is still here if you're "not a member."

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by jeremyw90

I could give a sh*t about Chicago

Says someone who specifically came to a Chicago forum to post in a thread about Chicago? Hmm...

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BuhbyeRham

While it's quite easy (and logical) to say Ohio is in the Midwest and Pennsylvania is on the east coast, when it comes to individual cities it's far less simple. Pittsburgh is far more Midwestern than it is East Coast, and Cincinnati is pretty much right on the border of the Midwest and South. Both cities are really as Appalachian as they are Eastern or Midwestern, too, for that matter.



Similarly, I think it's a weird artificial distinction to call Buffalo "Northeastern" just because it's in the state of New York and Cleveland "Midwestern" just because it's in Ohio. It's not like we're comparing Boston to Omaha here. Buffalo is REALLY far from the East Coast (not unlike Pittsburgh), and is in fact on the same lake as Cleveland, with just arbitrary state lines separating them. Both are not only Great Lakes cities (same region, for all practical purposes) but actually very close-to-each-other Great Lakes cities (as opposed to, say, Green Bay or Duluth).

East Coast and Northeast are NOT one in the same geographical region... The "East Coast" in its slang term (which many use it to mean) is a subset region of the Northeast. Being Rust Belt is NOT! a geographical area of land, its not the same as being in the "Midwest" ... The Northeast has Rust Belt cities, just like Midwest. The "East Coast" even has "Rust Belt" cities.

Pittsburgh and Buffalo are the Northeast, not Midwest. Never have and never will be, no matter how many people try to place them there because of their Blue Collar history. Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore too have a strong Blue Collar history and feel to them, therefore I guess they're Midwestern. Columbus, Indianapolis, Minneapolis never had much of a Blue Collar, manufacturing history so guess they're "East Coast".

You can say Pittsburgh and Buffalo are not the East Coast, because they absolutely are NOT. They don't share that common culture of the Bos-Wash corridor cities. That doesn't make them Midwest. Its still the Northeast, just not East Coast. Cleveland actually has more in common with Philly than it does Pittsburgh, if you want to be honest, in their present day forms.

People need to take a class on differences between actual GEOGRAPHICAL REGIONS and ECONOMIC CULTURES. Not one and the same. No part of Pennsylvania or New York are Midwestern. ZERO!

[personone]

Originally Posted by BuhbyeRham

You don't think most of the city of Chicago's infrastructure was designed pre-car? You might be confusing it with Houston, Phoenix, or L.A.

I have also lived in Philly, and in no way whatsoever is Chicago more similar to KC than Philly. Chicago and Philly are very similar in many ways. Chicago is unique in that it's neighborhoods are diverse and depending on what neighborhood you are in, it could either resemble a city neighborhood in the NE or in the Midwest.

For example, in the south side there are neighborhoods with full lawns. In neighborhoods on the north side you have classic brownstone/greystone lined streets resembling the north east. You also have sections of the city with residential high-rises resembling the NE.

Overall though, I say Chicago is much more similar to the east coast cities. I would think it is certainly more similar to Philly than it is to KC (in fairness I've never been to KC but I just based on size and look of the city I can make that assumption).

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by BuhbyeRham

While it's quite easy (and logical) to say Ohio is in the Midwest and Pennsylvania is on the east coast, when it comes to individual cities it's far less simple. Pittsburgh is far more Midwestern than it is East Coast, and Cincinnati is pretty much right on the border of the Midwest and South. Both cities are really as Appalachian as they are Eastern or Midwestern, too, for that matter.



Similarly, I think it's a weird artificial distinction to call Buffalo "Northeastern" just because it's in the state of New York and Cleveland "Midwestern" just because it's in Ohio. It's not like we're comparing Boston to Omaha here. Buffalo is REALLY far from the East Coast (not unlike Pittsburgh), and is in fact on the same lake as Cleveland, with just arbitrary state lines separating them. Both are not only Great Lakes cities (same region, for all practical purposes) but actually very close-to-each-other Great Lakes cities (as opposed to, say, Green Bay or Duluth).

Of all the major cities in the midwest, Cleveland, the furthest east of major midwest cities, is the one that is more culturally akin to the northeast than any other.

But, to me, that doesn't make it "northeastern", but does keep it solidly midwestern. Transappalachia, lands that were not settled until after the Revolution are in no way the Northeast. Their growth, their inception, were post-colonial. Just because Connecticut "reserved" land in northeast Ohio doesn't make that land northeastern.

Those are all historical and geographic reasons why Cleveland is the most "northeast like" of any midwestern city. But if we look at things in terms of the culture and function of our coastal cities, the one city in the midwest, by far, that relates to these areas and fits in with them is Chicago. Generally speaking, the cities in the US that come up when the terms "global" or "world class" comes up, the ones that always seem to make the list are Boston, New York, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. Five of the six are definitely coastal or coastal zone (of the five, only Washington is not directly on the coast...but it is close enough to it (even closer if you consider the Chesapeake to be part of the coast). Only one of the six is definitively not coastal: Chicago and among cities at least 200 miles from the coast, this one is in a class by itself.

[BuhbyeRham]

Originally Posted by edsg25

Of all the major cities in the midwest, Cleveland, the furthest east of major midwest cities, is the one that is more culturally akin to the northeast than any other.

But, to me, that doesn't make it "northeastern", but does keep it solidly midwestern.

Agreed. If anything I wasn't trying to make the argument that Cleveland is culturally northeastern so much as I was trying to make the argument that Pittsburgh is more culturally Upper Midwestern. Pittsburgh and Buffalo certainly have more in common with Cleveland as Great Lakes-area cities than they do with Philly or NYC within their own states. I tend to think of the Great Lakes as more of a cohesive region than the Midwest (which includes places like Des Moines, Fargo, Omaha, Springfield, MO, Wichita, etc.) or the broader Northeast.