Illinois......are you staying or leaving? (Chicago, Peoria: for sale, 2013, foreclosure)

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

GoCUBS1, so, what do you do for a living?

I am a Chicago business owner. Why do you ask?

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

I am a Chicago business owner. Why do you ask?

Mmmm trying to get a feel for, and find what careers fit and unfit by location.

People who flee Illinois due to finances and job situations - is it because of their career?

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

Mmmm trying to get a feel for, and find what careers fit and unfit by location.

People who flee Illinois due to finances and job situations - is it because of their career?

Typically, yes. Check out Chicago's demographic shift overtime. Percentage of college educated professionals continues to grow and those without Bachelors and advanced degrees decamp for places where they can find a job in manufacturing, warehousing, or other non-skilled labor.

I said this in another thread yesterday, but in 1950 manufacturing outnumbered service jobs in Chicago by a margin of 2:1. By 2000, the numbers had flipped and service jobs outnumbered manufacturing ones by nearly 3:1. There's a reason there are forty-four+ high rises under construction in Chicago. There's a reason these are all marketed as luxury. That's where the demand for housing is. You can blame Zoning making it impossible to make money on anything but luxury units, but developers wouldn't be putting literally millions on the line for units they had no hope of renting/selling. No one wants to see 2007 repeated, especially those fronting the cash.

On another note, a 56-unit rental property in ROGERS PARK just sold for $20,000,000. That's nearly DOUBLE its 2011 sales price of $11,000,000. Chicago's demographics are very much in transition and anyone who tries to argue otherwise does not understand or is simply bitter and wants to see Chicago fail.

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Typically, yes. Check out Chicago's demographic shift overtime. Percentage of college educated professionals continues to grow and those without Bachelors and advanced degrees decamp for places where they can find a job in manufacturing, warehousing, or other non-skilled labor.

I said this in another thread yesterday, but in 1950 manufacturing outnumbered service jobs in Chicago by a margin of 2:1. By 2000, the numbers had flipped and service jobs outnumbered manufacturing ones by nearly 3:1. There's a reason there are forty-four high rises under construction in Chicago. There's a reason these are all marketed as luxury. That's where the demand for housing is. You can blame Zoning making it impossible to make money on anything but luxury units, but developers wouldn't be putting literally millions on the line for units they had no hope of renting/selling. No one wants to see 2007 repeated.

Er, so demand for buying property is going up, or demand for renting is going up? Or both?

And I don't see what building new highrises has to do with it, people fleeing Illinois yet Chicago builds more highrise? Unless you meant more construction jobs. I guess construction jobs are on the rise.

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

On another note, a 56-unit rental property in ROGERS PARK just sold for $20,000,000. That's nearly DOUBLE its 2011 sales price of $11,000,000. Chicago's demographics are very much in transition and anyone who tries to argue otherwise does not understand or is simply bitter and wants to see Chicago fail.

Well this is good to go with student loan debt going up lol.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

Er, so demand for buying property is going up, or demand for renting is going up? Or both?

And I don't see what building new highrises has to do with it, people fleeing Illinois yet Chicago builds more highrise? Unless you meant more construction jobs. I guess construction jobs are on the rise.

It's both. I purchased my condo in 2015 and comparable units are selling for 20 percent more than what I bought for. Rents are at record highs in middle to upper middle income parts of the city and flat-lining or declining in working class/impoverished ones. Chicago is hollowing out in some working class and impoverished neighborhoods and experiencing high demand for housing in more affluent ones. GoCubs provided a link from a Crain's article that showed the Loops population having skyrocketed between 2000 and 2016 yet the south and west sides have plummeted. It's very much a tale of two cities yet they're both Chicago. Educated individuals with the skills required to compete in the modern economy are flourishing and those without are being left behind. It's a trend playing out nationally.

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Educated individuals with the skills required to compete in the modern economy are flourishing and those without are being left behind. It's a trend playing out nationally.

Such elitism. SMH.

For the record, we are all educated in my family, and we all have very high, in-demand skills (hence my daughter got a FAT signing bonus at her new job down here), and the reason we all got pay increases from what we earned in Chicago. There are fewer people down here to compete with for jobs, and the companies here are in need of skilled labor. The glut in the labor market down here is in the unskilled labor market, which drives wages down even further. So to reiterate my comments from previous posts, the large chunk of unskilled labor in Florida drives down the median wage statistics for the state. If you remove that from the equation, I would wager that wages for skilled labor are not that much different, and in some industries, I believe they are higher. Which is precisely why it is cheaper to live here if you have skills.

We were being left behind big time in Illinois. We weren't City workers or government workers of any kind - all private sector. And again, we definitely have skills. My DH works in a very niche job and the company down here was thrilled to find him and were willing to pay to get him. So your theory of "educated people with skills are flourishing", and therefore we must be uneducated rubes if we were being left behind in Illinois is ridiculous. Again, SMH.

Keep living with your head in the sand. I really don't care. Time will prove who is right.

One more thing to add. If people like Chicago, for reasons other than financial, and it is worth it for them to stay there, I will not argue with that. The US is huge, and filled with people who like and believe all sorts of very, very different things. If the things we hate about Chicago are the things you love, wonderful for you, I have no desire to try and change anyone's mind. The high cost of Chicago may be completely worth it for many people, and clearly it is for many. Many people think a Lamborghini is worth it too. (I certainly don't).

But if we are talking strictly about basic economics and not subjective QOL aspects as to what has value and what doesn't, then there is no contest.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

Such elitism. SMH.

For the record, we are all educated in my family, and we all have very high, in-demand skills (hence my daughter got a FAT signing bonus at her new job down here), and the reason we all got pay increases from what we earned in Chicago. There are fewer people down here to compete with for jobs, and the companies here are in need of skilled labor. The glut in the labor market down here is in the unskilled labor market, which drives wages down even further. So to reiterate my comments from previous posts, the large chunk of unskilled labor in Florida drives down the median wage statistics for the state. If you remove that from the equation, I would wager that wages for skilled labor are not that much different, and in some industries, I believe they are higher. Which is precisely why it is cheaper to live here if you have skills.

We were being left behind big time in Illinois. We weren't City workers or government workers of any kind - all private sector. And again, we definitely have skills. My DH works in a very niche job and the company down here was thrilled to find him and were willing to pay to get him. So your theory of "educated people with skills are flourishing", and therefore we must be uneducated rubes if we were being left behind in Illinois is ridiculous. Again, SMH.

Keep living with your head in the sand. I really don't care. Time will prove who is right.

One more thing to add. If people like Chicago, for reasons other than financial, and it is worth it for them to stay there, I will not argue with that. The US is huge, and filled with people who like and believe all sorts of very, very different things. If the things we hate about Chicago are the things you love, wonderful for you, I have no desire to try and change anyone's mind. The high cost of Chicago may be completely worth it for many people, and clearly it is for many. Many people think a Lamborghini is worth it too. (I certainly don't).

But if we are talking strictly about basic economics and not subjective QOL aspects as to what has value and what doesn't, then there is no contest.

Bella, why do you return here and get yourself worked up? We get it, you're happy in Florida.

Not only have I provided you with plenty of data points, but so have other posters. There's no elitism on my end. You know nothing about me, but it's cute that you would pretend to. I come from a very middle class family and work very hard to better myself in all facets of my life - including researching things pertaining to the place I live so I can make informed decisions on who I vote for.

I'm just giving you the data which you can't seem to accept because you're bitter about whatever. Maybe you're angry that you're separated from your family that is still in Illinois. Maybe you're bitter that you know deep down what I and other posters are saying is true and you can't accept that because it means you've been wrong all this time. People like you seem to take excessive pride in being right all the time. Your posts about me "losing" and you "winning" are truly eye opening as to what kind of person you are.

I don't care to psychoanalyze you, but it's seriously dumbfounding that you continue to spend hours on this forum instead of talking about Florida's countless issues with your other Floridians in their forums. So happy to be out of Illinois, yet OBSESSED with reading through threads like this to remind everyone you moved to Florida and it's so much cheaper. It's not. You can't provide a single COL index that proves otherwise. I've given you several. You come across as vitriolic and I don't care that you think I'm an elitist for posting raw data. You should really think about why that makes you so angry though.

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

But if we are talking strictly about basic economics and not subjective QOL aspects as to what has value and what doesn't, then there is no contest.

Your take on the following economics of per capita annual personal income through Q3 2016?

Bureau of Economic Analysis- By state, per capita personal income compound annual growth rate, Q3 2015 through Q3 2016...

Illinois = 3.33 - 3.98 (among top 10 states during this period)
Florida = 2.48 - 2.93 (among average U.S. rate during this period)
Natl. Avg.= 2.7

Chart below...

http://bea.gov/iTable/iTableHtml.cfm...=0&9940=2016q3

[MongooseHugger]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

It is hell. And that's the primary reason people are fleeing en masse.


Don't you get it? People don't leave just because they "don't like it". People flee for various reasons. Shall we count the ways IL is hell? 1) ridiculous property taxes 2) ridiculous tolls 3) crumbling roads 4) horrid schools 5) soaring crime 6) corruption 7) supporting illegal immigration 8) violation of Constitutional rights 9) high COL 10) racism 11) job losses 12) soaring debt


All of the above literally PLAGUE Chicago, and will continue to do so as long as you boneheads continue to vote blue. Its like you never learn your damn lessons!!! So go ahead and laugh that you find it funny how conservatives flee the hell that IL/CHI has become. We expats are the ones laughing at you clowns, with your forced smiles, as you wave from decks of the Titanic. We've already taken the lifeboats outta there because we were smart to see the disaster IL was about to become, and HAS become.

Reason for the following:

1) ridiculous property taxes - Democrats
2) ridiculous tolls - Democrats
3) crumbling roads - Democrats
4) horrid schools - Democrats
5) soaring crime - Democrats
6) corruption - Democrats
7) supporting illegal immigration - both parties
8) violation of Constitutional rights - Democrats
9) high COL - Democrats
10) racism - both parties, but probably more so for Democrats
11) job losses - Democrats
12) soaring debt - Democrats