Illinois......are you staying or leaving? (Chicago, Time: income, property taxes, living)

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

A survey of some random CEOs who rank Illinois (#48), New York (#49), and California (#50) as the very worst states for business, without referencing any research data... Right, that seems legit...

P.s.

Their "worst state for business" of California historically has:

.....the highest business survival rate of any state, with 3.5 times more businesses created than closed in 2013. This boom in new business shows the strong entrepreneurial spirit of California residents, as does its high density of startups (141 per 100,000 residents). California has the second-largest pool of potential employees and one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation. Entrepreneurs might have an easier time of securing funds in the Golden State compared with other states, however, because the state has the fifth-highest rate of small business loans (80.6 per 1,000 small business employees).
http://www.cbsnews.com/media/want-to...entrepreneurs/



Also, check out Illinois, California, New York on this GDP growth map...


https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...?client=safari

Forbes isn't that different. Texas is #4. California isn't that far down at #30, and Illinois at # 33. Still far from great considering their potential.

http://www.forbes.com/best-states-for-business/list/

Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly

Go ahead and move to Houston. I know several people who have and despise it so much they are making plans to move again already. They constantly complain about the heat, sprawl, lack of transit, traffic, lack of interesting neighborhoods, bland city scape, etc. etc. etc. But its business friendly so alas, it must be the perfect city. Also, not sure what's so funny about climate change.

Never said Houston. I bought a house in San Antonio. People are finding a reason to move there. Texas' population growth between 2000 and 2010 represents the highest population increase, by number of people, for any U.S. state during this time period. On the other hand, we have our state, Illinois' which its population declined in 2016 for the third straight year, losing more people than any other state in the union. The drop of more than 37,000 people leaves Illinois with a population just north of 12.8 million. This estimate is still higher than the 2010 census of 12.4 million. Right now we got a population getting older, and a population that’s not growing very much. So you’re going to have fewer taxpayers, you have fewer consumers, you have fewer people to lead consumer-driven growth. That's not a good prognosis for the immediate future.

[flamadiddle]

The problem with Texas is that it's Texas. Some of us like snow and 4 seasons.

Can they move Texas up here? We can place it between Illinois and Indiana.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

You're undervaluing the housing in Chicago. When you look at average housing in halfway decent areas it's higher. There are large swaths of the city and south suburbs that are, without a doubt, unfit, but still have homes for sale which drive down the housing numbers. Plus you have far more taxes to deal with in Chicago than somewhere like Florida or even Texas. Lets keep the comparisons apples to apples here.

Still, I think Chicago does have more to offer a single or couple who are making in the 100-180k range. Below that you are priced out of SFHs in much of the truly nice parts of the city and the remotely desirable suburbs, particularly the latter when you consider the tax burden. You can definitely purchase on less but it will be hard to do in a truly nice neighborhood.

There aren't large enough swaths of ghettos to drag the median down that much. I don't have the exact numbers, but I'd guess something like 3 million people live in either the south side or south burbs. That's out of 10 million. People buy houses in middle to upper middle class suburbs for 300k. They're not five bedroom McMansions, but they're livable three beds/two baths. I get it's hard to believe Chicago is that affordable, but it is. Prove otherwise.

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

Right now we got a population getting older, and a population that’s not growing very much. So you’re going to have fewer taxpayers, you have fewer consumers, you have fewer people to lead consumer-driven growth. That's not a good prognosis for the immediate future.

Nope... Large numbers of lower income workers are fleeing and being replaced by a smaller but wealthier population of a higher tax bracket who can: 1) Pay more taxes while using less govt. services 2) have more disposable income to spend, which leads to consumer growth.

Chicago-wealth-and-education-soar-as-population-dips

According to the Brookings Instititute, NYC, LA, and Chicago are among the densest and most educated cities, which are also the richest cities, and often the biggest cities. They’re gobbling up a disproportionate share of college grads. And, as a result, they are becoming richer, denser, and more educated.

The Feedback Loop That Will Make America's Richest Cities Even Richer - The Atlantic

[CGab]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

Nope... Large numbers of lower income workers are fleeing and being replaced by a smaller but wealthier population of a higher tax bracket who can: 1) Pay more taxes while using less govt. services 2) have more disposable income to spend, which leads to consumer growth.

Chicago-wealth-and-education-soar-as-population-dips

According to the Brookings Instititute, NYC, LA, and Chicago are among the densest and most educated cities, which are also the richest cities, and often the biggest cities. They’re gobbling up a disproportionate share of college grads. And, as a result, they are becoming richer, denser, and more educated.

The Feedback Loop That Will Make America's Richest Cities Even Richer - The Atlantic

Hmm, not too sure about how accurate that is. We left Illinois (western suburbs) and my husband has a masters and is a Mechanical Engineer. I have a Bachelors degree (formerly in the financial field). We make over a $150k. We have a few neighbors who also left Illinois and are also educated and upper middle class. We grew both grew up in Illinois and had enough of the politics there and decided to leave. I understand why some choose to stay, but there are much better cities with lower COL than Illinois.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by CGab

Hmm, not too sure about how accurate that is. We left Illinois (western suburbs) and my husband has a masters and is a Mechanical Engineer. I have a Bachelors degree (formerly in the financial field). We make over a $150k. We have a few neighbors who also left Illinois and are also educated and upper middle class. We grew both grew up in Illinois and had enough of the politics there and decided to leave. I understand why some choose to stay, but there are much better cities with lower COL than Illinois.

Obviously people of all walks migrate, but educated people are replaced by other educated people. That's not true of our working class population.

[compactspace]

Originally Posted by CGab

Hmm, not too sure about how accurate that is. We left Illinois (western suburbs) and my husband has a masters and is a Mechanical Engineer. I have a Bachelors degree (formerly in the financial field). We make over a $150k. We have a few neighbors who also left Illinois and are also educated and upper middle class. We grew both grew up in Illinois and had enough of the politics there and decided to leave. I understand why some choose to stay, but there are much better cities with lower COL than Illinois.

Quite understandable that you'd leave if you don't like the politics. But you're talking about a few data points in the set. Educated people leave NYC in droves too, but the trend is a concentration of skills, knowledge and wealth in our big liberal cities. Chicago is struggling more than the others but is still very much included.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

You're undervaluing the housing in Chicago. When you look at average housing in halfway decent areas it's higher. There are large swaths of the city and south suburbs that are, without a doubt, unfit, but still have homes for sale which drive down the housing numbers. Plus you have far more taxes to deal with in Chicago than somewhere like Florida or even Texas. Lets keep the comparisons apples to apples here.

Still, I think Chicago does have more to offer a single or couple who are making in the 100-180k range. Below that you are priced out of SFHs in much of the truly nice parts of the city and the remotely desirable suburbs, particularly the latter when you consider the tax burden. You can definitely purchase on less but it will be hard to do in a truly nice neighborhood.

No, I'm not undervaluing housing. Median means 50 percent of housing sales are at or below that price. Obviously housing costs are higher in places like Kenilworth or Hinsdale. But you can live in solidly middle class communities like Skokie, Woodridge, Roselle, Elk Grove Village, Schaumburg, Wheeling, Hoffman Estates, Mt. Prospect, Palatine, and MANY more for under 350k. You could even find homes for less than 300k in many of these communities.

The undesirable parts of the south side don't drag the median down that much. There are also large swaths of middle class communities on the south side. Not even most of the south side and south suburbs are ghetto . Orland Park, Tinley Park, Palos Hills, Floosmoor, Homewood, Oak Lawn...Things are only "bad" along the Illinois-Indiana border. The less than stellar communities are probably home to a couple million people at most. There are still over 7,500,000 others living outside the confines of these places.

[TBideon]

6 in Chicago for this year.
779 homicides in 2016 (upgraded from 762).

[OyCrumbler]

One interesting thing is who are the people who are the people that are coming in instead? Is it a lot of it better educated or better skilled workers? I know within the city of Chicago itself there's been a large internal demographics change where it's become more younger, better educated and better paid people overall. Is that true for the metro overall? What about the state?