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Old 01-20-2017, 11:27 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,951,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
I believe some of the poor are poor through no fault of their own. Being a chemist and seeing the absolute cluster F that is hiring and how tough a job search is and how devoid of merit hiring is I would never blame someone for having trouble finding work. There are also people with physical and mental issues.

There are also a lot more people that made bad decisions. They majored in worthless subjects, committed crimes, got substance abuse issues, had kids they were not financially able to support, dropped out of High School etc.

However, looking forward to the future I just see living wage jobs being available for a smaller and smaller portion of the population and income inequality and hyperinflation of education and medical and any other vital services continuing. Therefore, I think we are either going to have to have a guaranteed min income to ensure our people get their minimal needs taken care of or we are going to have rampant poverty and the societal issues that accompany it. At this point with the complicated and inefficient web of social welfare programs and the high cost of incarceration it probably wouldn't cost much more than we are spending now.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the blame for these issues lie with the individual? I can think of dozens of reasons to put blame on an individual for having trouble finding work.

 
Old 01-20-2017, 01:35 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,171,322 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAReastcoast View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the blame for these issues lie with the individual? I can think of dozens of reasons to put blame on an individual for having trouble finding work.
I think it's unfair to assume it's always the individual. I don't know when you entered the workforce, but it's very difficult to even get your foot in the door these days. People EXPECT you to work unpaid internships in addition to graduating from a top notch school where you paid ~30k+ a year for four, five, or even SIX years. I worked unpaid internships all four years of undergrad. It wasn't until I had graduated that I found an INTERNSHIP that was willing to pay me. It took my six months to find my first job where I started off making less than $30,000 a year. Thankfully I was debt free and able to live with my parents, allowing me to save most of it. Many people don't have that option.

Landing a job is a lot of luck and even more of who you know. Some people don't have the connections or the guidance of those who have built successful careers and networks. Some people will do essentially everything right and still get screwed.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 02:07 PM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,429,546 times
Reputation: 20337
Finding a job is almost entirely about who you know that can get you past HR, and the screening software. If you have to go through HR and their gauntlet of Bullcrap like junk science psychometric tests, interview gimmickry, or automatic disqualifies (gaps, poor credit, a bad reference etc) you are going to have a very rough time unless you have some crazy rare niche skillets.

I was fortunate that my boss liked my qualifications and made the HR [BLEEP] back off.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 02:35 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,951,013 times
Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
I think it's unfair to assume it's always the individual. I don't know when you entered the workforce, but it's very difficult to even get your foot in the door these days. People EXPECT you to work unpaid internships in addition to graduating from a top notch school where you paid ~30k+ a year for four, five, or even SIX years. I worked unpaid internships all four years of undergrad. It wasn't until I had graduated that I found an INTERNSHIP that was willing to pay me. It took my six months to find my first job where I started off making less than $30,000 a year. Thankfully I was debt free and able to live with my parents, allowing me to save most of it. Many people don't have that option.

Landing a job is a lot of luck and even more of who you know. Some people don't have the connections or the guidance of those who have built successful careers and networks. Some people will do essentially everything right and still get screwed.
I was highlighting the poster who said they never blame the individual for not being able to find a job, then highlighted many people majored in worthless subjects, committed crimes, got substance abuse issues, had kids they were not financially able to support, dropped out of High School. I would most definitely put the blame on the individual for those issues.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 02:46 PM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,429,546 times
Reputation: 20337
Well in those cases they deserve some or all of the blame. Not as much with the worthless subject as kids are propagandized from a young age they need to go to college and "major in what they love and the money will follow." I posted on another thread that colleges are becoming frauds lying about various majors employment prospects. Also at this rate, all majors will become useless even STEM especially if President Trump doesn't shut down the h1b program and curtail offshoring which puts American STEM grads out of work.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 03:03 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,171,322 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
Well in those cases they deserve some or all of the blame. Not as much with the worthless subject as kids are propagandized from a young age they need to go to college and "major in what they love and the money will follow." I posted on another thread that colleges are becoming frauds lying about various majors employment prospects. Also at this rate, all majors will become useless even STEM especially if President Trump doesn't shut down the h1b program and curtail offshoring which puts American STEM grads out of work.
The U.S. needs MORE STEM workers. H1b visas may suppress wages for STEM workers (who are still paid very well), but the demand for qualified STEM workers far exceeds supply.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 03:05 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,951,013 times
Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
Well in those cases they deserve some or all of the blame. Not as much with the worthless subject as kids are propagandized from a young age they need to go to college and "major in what they love and the money will follow."
Agreed, "do what you love" is just bad advice, I figured that out at an early age. I seriously can't believe there are young adults today who are spending tens of thousands of dollars for a degree in Theology or some other nonsense, and then shocked when they can't find a decent paying job.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Arizona
3,763 posts, read 6,710,907 times
Reputation: 2397
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
Well in those cases they deserve some or all of the blame. Not as much with the worthless subject as kids are propagandized from a young age they need to go to college and "major in what they love and the money will follow." I posted on another thread that colleges are becoming frauds lying about various majors employment prospects. Also at this rate, all majors will become useless even STEM especially if President Trump doesn't shut down the h1b program and curtail offshoring which puts American STEM grads out of work.
Not to mention Trump wants to bring is DeVos for Education Secretary, who is very unqualified for the position. Any stride the student loan industry has made under Obama in making things fairer...which is still pretty one sided...will likely be repealed.

It's bad enough we make kids go to college to take out loans for degrees they will be lucky to make $10 an hour on, then when they can't pay, destroy their credit and claim a lack of personal responsibility.
 
Old 01-20-2017, 03:23 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,171,322 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattywo85 View Post
Not to mention Trump wants to bring is DeVos for Education Secretary, who is very unqualified for the position. Any stride the student loan industry has made under Obama in making things fairer...which is still pretty one sided...will likely be repealed.

It's bad enough we make kids go to college to take out loans for degrees they will be lucky to make $10 an hour on, then when they can't pay, destroy their credit and claim a lack of personal responsibility.
Yup. It's really unfortunate that so many older Americans seem perfectly okay with destroying any hope for their children to experience upward mobility. What a time to be alive!
 
Old 01-20-2017, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Below 59th St
672 posts, read 757,535 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
I believe some of the poor are poor through no fault of their own. Being a chemist and seeing the absolute cluster F that is hiring and how tough a job search is and how devoid of merit hiring is I would never blame someone for having trouble finding work. There are also people with physical and mental issues.

There are also a lot more people that made bad decisions. They majored in worthless subjects, committed crimes, got substance abuse issues, had kids they were not financially able to support, dropped out of High School etc.

However, looking forward to the future I just see living wage jobs being available for a smaller and smaller portion of the population and income inequality and hyperinflation of education and medical and any other vital services continuing. Therefore, I think we are either going to have to have a guaranteed min income to ensure our people get their minimal needs taken care of or we are going to have rampant poverty and the societal issues that accompany it. At this point with the complicated and inefficient web of social welfare programs and the high cost of incarceration it probably wouldn't cost much more than we are spending now.
This.

People make bad choices for many reasons, poor information and poor mental health being chief amongst them. Sometimes, due to circumstances of birth, bad choices are the only ones available.

And those bad choices create bad feedback, and then they compound. It's abhorrent to suggest we toss those people on the trash heap and turn up our noses at their miserable, shortened lives. We, as a society are better than that.

There's a bit of a fantasy going around about legions of lazy, entitled whiners who make bad choices on purpose and expect society to pick up after them. It's a convenient rhetorical device to harden hearts and promote devil-take-the-hindmost politics, but it's largely false. A minuscule number of such people exist, and their existence is insufficient to let the generationally poor suffer.

To make things worse, the road of 'good choices' is getting narrower and narrower, and much easier to fall off of. We're entering a status quo where we've never had more, been more productive nor had greater capacity to ensure everyone amongst us can lead a healthy, dignified life. But we're being hoodwinked into pooling up the spoils into a few hands thanks to a combination of naked greed and manufactured contempt for 'lazy entitled slobs'.

This idea that we're all atomic individuals in the Wild West, existing apart from and in competition with each other, building wealth or failing entirely on our own merits, is also fantasy. We're interdependent social animals existing in a social context. Almost all success is built on advantage inherited from family or community. Now we can all succeed if we help each other, or tiny number of us can succeed on the backs of those less fortunate or weaker than ourselves.

And back on topic, despite its problems with waste and mismanagement, politics in Illinois tends towards the former. That's why I'd live there over most places in the US.
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