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Old 12-27-2016, 08:06 PM
 
5,126 posts, read 7,363,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post

I'm over people saying it's the taxes. Yes property taxes can be high, but overall the COL in the top half in regards to affordability. People who move because of taxes will find themselves paying just as much or more depending on where they choose to move.
I think that's a myth that people will pay just as much or more. A giant myth to make people feel better.

If that were true, then experts wouldn't bother rating places based on overall taxation. There would be no point.

My relatives that moved to Illinois from Florida are not stupid. They know how to calculate what they are paying now vs. what they were paying before. Florida taxes are not even as low as they used to be, yet Illinois is worse.

 
Old 12-28-2016, 08:45 AM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,148,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
I think that's a myth that people will pay just as much or more. A giant myth to make people feel better.

If that were true, then experts wouldn't bother rating places based on overall taxation. There would be no point.

My relatives that moved to Illinois from Florida are not stupid. They know how to calculate what they are paying now vs. what they were paying before. Florida taxes are not even as low as they used to be, yet Illinois is worse.
I never said your relatives or anyone who relocates is stupid

There are more expenses to living than taxes alone.

https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm

Illinois has a Median Income $10,000 greater than Florida. I understand there are a lot of retirees in Florida which drags the numbers down. I understand many communities in Florida have a lower property tax rate than communities in Illinois. State Income tax is higher in Florida than Illinois. Florida's taxation policies favor people with no/fixed retirement incomes...hence all the retirees. The sun also helps.

Make no mistake, I'd also welcome lower property taxes, but people aren't getting ripped off in Illinois any more than they are elsewhere.

Last edited by IrishIllini; 12-28-2016 at 09:33 AM..
 
Old 12-28-2016, 01:13 PM
 
605 posts, read 704,061 times
Reputation: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
I never said your relatives or anyone who relocates is stupid

There are more expenses to living than taxes alone.

https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm

Illinois has a Median Income $10,000 greater than Florida. I understand there are a lot of retirees in Florida which drags the numbers down. I understand many communities in Florida have a lower property tax rate than communities in Illinois. State Income tax is higher in Florida than Illinois. Florida's taxation policies favor people with no/fixed retirement incomes...hence all the retirees. The sun also helps.

Make no mistake, I'd also welcome lower property taxes, but people aren't getting ripped off in Illinois any more than they are elsewhere.

State Income tax is higher in Florida than Illinois??? Ummmm, I don't think so.... Florida has ZERO state income tax. I hear talk that Illinois is going to go up to possibly 6% in the near future.

And what a huge myth that Florida is nothing but retirees (I know you didn't say that, but so many people believe this). They are building schools in our area like crazy - the ones we have are so overpopulated. We left Illinois 19 mos ago and are saving a TON. And both our incomes went UP. So again, another myth that income is lower. Yes, the retirees we have DO drag down the numbers, so your statistics are skewed with regard to reality. Both our daughter and her husband are moving down here next month and they too each got jobs that pay well over what they currently earn in Chicago. Our taxes are much, much lower than we paid in Chicago. Don't let anyone try to tell you Chicago/Illinois is cheaper or even comparable. It's simply not true!

We don't pay sales tax on groceries either. All the nickels and dimes that you pay in Chicago/Illinois add up to a LOT. We also only pay $40/year to renew our license plates. And no city stickers. All the crazy taxes they have come up with up there DO add up to a LOT. We save thousands and thousands a year living down here. Absolutely NO comparison.

We also pay much less for our property tax here and bought a much bigger home on a much bigger lot than we had in Chicago. And Chicago property taxes are going to be through the roof very soon.... they have enjoyed lower taxes than the suburbs for quite awhile. That won't last much longer.

You can quote grid statistics all you want, but they don't always reflect reality since they take into account so many variables that don't apply to the majority.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 01:40 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,148,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellamouse View Post
State Income tax is higher in Florida than Illinois??? Ummmm, I don't think so.... Florida has ZERO state income tax. I hear talk that Illinois is going to go up to possibly 6% in the near future.

And what a huge myth that Florida is nothing but retirees (I know you didn't say that, but so many people believe this). They are building schools in our area like crazy - the ones we have are so overpopulated. We left Illinois 19 mos ago and are saving a TON. And both our incomes went UP. So again, another myth that income is lower. Yes, the retirees we have DO drag down the numbers, so your statistics are skewed with regard to reality. Both our daughter and her husband are moving down here next month and they too each got jobs that pay well over what they currently earn in Chicago. Our taxes are much, much lower than we paid in Chicago. Don't let anyone try to tell you Chicago/Illinois is cheaper or even comparable. It's simply not true!

We don't pay sales tax on groceries either. All the nickels and dimes that you pay in Chicago/Illinois add up to a LOT. We also only pay $40/year to renew our license plates. And no city stickers. All the crazy taxes they have come up with up there DO add up to a LOT. We save thousands and thousands a year living down here. Absolutely NO comparison.

We also pay much less for our property tax here and bought a much bigger home on a much bigger lot than we had in Chicago. And Chicago property taxes are going to be through the roof very soon.... they have enjoyed lower taxes than the suburbs for quite awhile. That won't last much longer.

You can quote grid statistics all you want, but they don't always reflect reality since they take into account so many variables that don't apply to the majority.
Sorry, I misread. You are correct, Florida has no state income tax.

Nonetheless, the COL is pretty much a wash between the two. Florida's is slightly higher, although both are below the U.S. average. Median Income literally $10,000 less per year.

https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm

Also not everyone wants a 3,500 sq. ft. house. That's a lot of upkeep. I was raised in a house just over 2k square feet with 2 siblings, my parents, and a dog. We each had our own bedroom and there are three bathrooms. That's pretty much all you need IMO. You may feel differently. My parents could more than afford the payments to the point where they literally paid for our college educations out of pocket. They're not rich either.

Last edited by IrishIllini; 12-28-2016 at 01:50 PM..
 
Old 12-28-2016, 01:46 PM
 
605 posts, read 704,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Sorry, I misread. You are correct, Florida has no state income tax.

Nonetheless, the COL is pretty much a wash between the two. Florida's is slightly higher. Median Income literally $10,000 less per year.

https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm
Again, your "grid" does not reflect reality. Your grid generalizes. It is skewed due to some odd factors that don't apply to the majority.

I am telling you that just about every person I know that comes down here saves a TON. It is not a wash!! Not even remotely close. The median income is indeed skewed because of the retirees. But for those who actually DO work, we earn easily the same or, as in the case of every one in our family, we earn more! Granted I am talking about skilled labor, not unskilled labor, but no one makes much of a living anywhere on unskilled labor. And the income numbers are also skewed due to the volume of unskilled labor jobs we have here in FL due to the tourism industry. But if you don't work in tourism and you have some kind of skill/education, you for sure make as much or more as in Chicago.

Saving 3.75% on state income tax alone is huge. Thousands per year on property tax alone, huge. And if it goes to 5 or 6%? Then you are talking really big savings.

You can believe the manipulated "data" from some source all you want over what real people are actually experiencing. I cannot help you with that.

There is a reason why the number of people who leave Illinois keeps doubling each year. It isn't because COL is the "same" everywhere.... SMH

No one needs to buy a 3500 sq ft house (we didn't) and who ever suggested such a thing? My point is, the rates are so much lower, that even on a bigger house you pay less. Our house in Chicago was 1600 sq ft. on a 30x125 plot of land (tiny). Down here we have almost 1/3 acre and a 2400 sq ft house and we pay LESS. And I have banana trees in my backyard (Do I get to count the money I save on buying bananas? ha ha that is just a joke).

Imagine how much lower even the taxes would then be if I bought the same size house/lot that I had in Chicago. It would easily be 1/2 or even less of what I paid up North. Our house payments on our BIGGER house cost us $800/mo LESS than what we paid up North. This is what I am trying to get across to you. We are not rich either, and the COL up there was putting us literally in the poor house. Down here we can live very nicely and actually feel like we're getting ahead for a change.

Last edited by Bellamouse; 12-28-2016 at 01:56 PM..
 
Old 12-28-2016, 01:56 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,148,078 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellamouse View Post
Again, your "grid" does not reflect reality. Your grid generalizes. It is skewed due to some odd factors that don't apply to the majority.

I am telling you that just about every person I know that comes down here saves a TON. It is not a wash!! Not even remotely close. The median income is indeed skewed because of the retirees. But for those who actually DO work, we earn easily the same or, as in the case of every one in our family, we earn more! Granted I am talking about skilled labor, not unskilled labor, but no one makes much of a living anywhere on unskilled labor. And the income numbers are also skewed due to the volume of unskilled labor jobs we have here in FL due to the tourism industry. But if you don't work in tourism and you have some kind of skill/education, you for sure make as much or more as in Chicago.

Saving 3.75% on state income tax alone is huge. Thousands per year on property tax alone, huge.

You can believe the manipulated "data" from some source all you want over what real people are actually experiencing. I cannot help you with that.

There is a reason why the number of people who leave Illinois keeps doubling each year. It isn't because COL is the "same" everywhere.... SMH

No one needs to buy a 3500 sq ft house (we didn't) and who ever suggested such a thing? My point is, the rates are so much lower, that even on a bigger house you pay less. Our house in Chicago was 1600 sq ft. on a 30x125 plot of land (tiny). Down here we have almost 1/3 acre and a 2400 sq ft house and we pay LESS. And I have banana trees in my backyard (Do I get to count the money I save on buying bananas? ha ha that is just a joke).

Imagine how much lower even the taxes would then be if I bought the same size house/lot that I had in Chicago. It would easily be 1/2 or even less of what I paid up North. Our house payments on our BIGGER house cost us $800/mo LESS than what we paid up North. This is what I am trying to get across to you. We are not rich either, and the COL up there was putting us literally in the poor house. Down here we can live very nicely and actually feel like we're getting ahead for a change.


K, Bellamouse. Illinois' documented affordability is a conspiracy propagated by Missouri Economic Researchers. You got me.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 01:58 PM
 
605 posts, read 704,061 times
Reputation: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post


K, Bellamouse. It's a conspiracy propagated by Missouri Economic Researchers. You got me.
It's not a conspiracy. You cannot boil down reality into a simple grid. There are too many variable factors that cannot be accounted for in their simplistic equations. I'm genuinely sorry if you cannot comprehend that. State Income Tax isn't even part of their equation. It's a silly grid. You can hang all your belief on one set of statistics with no concern for their accuracy. I, on the other hand, will hang my belief on my actual experiences and the $$ in my checkbook. Which is what the other guy tried to tell you about his family when he said "they weren't dumb". He meant the reality of their checkbook didn't lie either.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Wicker Park/East Village area
2,474 posts, read 4,135,021 times
Reputation: 1939
Illinois can not simply get up and leave, it is what it is, it is Illinois, and it is here, now, and at least for the foreseeable future.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 02:05 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,148,078 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellamouse View Post
It's not a conspiracy. You cannot boil down reality into a simple grid. There are too many variable factors that cannot be accounted for in their simplistic equations. I'm genuinely sorry if you cannot comprehend that.
. Jesus, this is why Trump was able to con Americans into voting for him. I'm genuinely sorry this conflicts with your preconceived notions and that you can't accept it as a result. Groceries, housing, utilities, transportation, health , and misc are what the ECONOMISTS looked at. The first five are probably the largest expenses an individual will have. Are you an educated and professionally trained economist? If so, I'd be more than happy to discuss the methodology of this study with you. I'm sure I could learn a thing or two

If not there's nothing left to discuss with you.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 02:12 PM
 
605 posts, read 704,061 times
Reputation: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
. Jesus, this is why Trump was able to con Americans into voting for him. I'm genuinely sorry this conflicts with your preconceived notions and that you can't accept it as a result. Groceries, housing, utilities, transportation, health , and misc is what the ECONOMISTS looked at. The first five are probably the largest expenses an individual will pay. Are you an educated and professionally trained economist? If so, I'd be more than happy to discuss the methodology of this study with you. I'm sure I could learn a thing or two

If not there's nothing left to discuss with you.
Because economists are the be all end all of all Truth. Right, sorry, I forgot.

Look, I am done arguing with you, but the reality is, costs in Chicago are so much higher than downstate Illinois, that the numbers are skewed (meaning, the ACTUAL costs - not the average - are higher in Chicago. I lived in Chicago. I didn't live in someplace that had the "average" costs). State income taxes weren't taken into account. Again, skewed. Adjusting for the number of retired people - not done - skewed.

Skewed, skewed, skewed. Just because they are economists does not make them geniuses. No amount of REAL evidence will ever convince someone who lives solely by what "educated people" tell them they need to think.

How does not paying ANY sales tax on groceries not get taken into account? They did not compare like housing to like housing, they just compared AVERAGE housing. What part of this do you not comprehend? Houses run smaller in Chicago just in general. The average size house/lot is smaller up there. So perhaps "housing" costs the same, but does it really? Per square foot? Nope. They didn't take into account any kind of quality of life aspects. Like the SIZE of the house or the lot. I can tell you my QOL was awful up there butt up against my neighbor hearing every fart they made. Now I have SPACE (and clean air!) and I pay significantly less for it.

I really am done. You will never see reality - you will only see your precious "numbers". I honestly don't care what you believe. My message is to others out there - as one of those who lives it for real, and not just in theory, it is definitely cheaper down here.
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