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People get strange looks for driving downtown. No one will think twice about you taking CTA.
Right. I don't disagree with that. My issue is that I won't be working in the Loop if I were to move/live there. I mentioned early on that the Loop would be more of an amazing wonder to visit on the weekends for an architecture tour or to hit up Grant/Millennium. I'd be living and working in the neighborhoods, which makes PT a bit more difficult, as the city isn't designed as well for east-west travel in a lot of places.
Here's my beef with some of the 'progressives'. They often forget about prioritizing schools/jobs/feeding people. Or it gets somehow lost in the discussion regarding cars vs public trans.
I don't want to stray too far off the topic here, but I agree with you. That's why I plan on giving away at least half my money before I'm dead. I signed my own "giving pledge", and the money will go to local organizations that specialize in critical needs like these. To each their own on that, though.
I get a small sense that you have spent too much time either with one particular type of socioeconomic demographic, or perhaps in the Sarasota sun.
Who cares what the 'vibe' is? Do you really care how people get their groceries(?) Do what you feel is the correct path for you. Maybe others will finally figure it out and get rid of their cars they really don't need
Well, perhaps I'm not making myself clear. I mentioned this somewhere further up the thread, but I don't care one bit what other people think of me. If I did, I wouldn't be living as I do down here in Sarasota. I used to work as a service advisor for a luxury car dealership. I'd be working with people who were buying six-figure cars. But I'd show up to work by bus, here in a very small city where that's kind of strange. And these clients would look at me very weirdly. Did I care? Not one bit.
However, I do crave opportunities to be around other people who are like-minded, as I mentioned a few times. That's what it is. That's why the vibe is important.
A bible thumper might feel out of place in San Francisco. They may not care what others think of their stance on religion, say, but that doesn't mean this person might not relish any possible opportunity to get together with other bible thumpers. That's just an analogy. It's not about what others think of you. It's about being around others that are similar. Most people want to be around others like them. This happens over and over again in every corner of the world - people tend to congregate around like people. Well, I'm way out of place down here, but I don't want to move halfway up the country if the situation isn't dramatically improved, due to the significant drawbacks of living in Chicago (which I also mentioned earlier).
I could just as well stay down here. I don't care what others think. But I do crave the opportunity to be around others who generally have a similar belief system as I do, which is why I'm interested in Chicago in the first place.
Well, perhaps I'm not making myself clear. I mentioned this somewhere further up the thread, but I don't care one bit what other people think of me. If I did, I wouldn't be living as I do down here in Sarasota. I used to work as a service advisor for a luxury car dealership. I'd be working with people who were buying six-figure cars. But I'd show up to work by bus, here in a very small city where that's kind of strange. And these clients would look at me very weirdly. Did I care? Not one bit.
However, I do crave opportunities to be around other people who are like-minded, as I mentioned a few times. That's what it is. That's why the vibe is important.
A bible thumper might feel out of place in San Francisco. They may not care what others think of their stance on religion, say, but that doesn't mean this person might not relish any possible opportunity to get together with other bible thumpers. That's just an analogy. It's not about what others think of you. It's about being around others that are similar. Most people want to be around others like them. This happens over and over again in every corner of the world - people tend to congregate around like people. Well, I'm way out of place down here, but I don't want to move halfway up the country if the situation isn't dramatically improved, due to the significant drawbacks of living in Chicago (which I also mentioned earlier).
I could just as well stay down here. I don't care what others think. But I do crave the opportunity to be around others who generally have a similar belief system as I do, which is why I'm interested in Chicago in the first place.
I don't quite understand what you're looking for. Outside of NYC, the North Side of Chicago plus the neighborhoods adjacent to the Loop are probably the easiest areas in the country to live without having a car. What more do you want? Pretty much no one here is going to think twice if you're using public transportation and don't own a car. There is a large critical mass of people who do the same here. By the same token, there isn't some type of ideological anti-car movement. No one here is going to either praise you or criticize you for not owning a car. If you go to a party or a restaurant or bar, absolutely no one cares about what type of transportation you took to get there. It's not even a topic of conversation outside of complaining about a train breaking down or terrible traffic or a crazy Uber driver or bad weather (in each case everyone then just nods and agrees that it all blows).
TLDR; no one is going to GAF whether you own a car or not. You can very reasonably live in many parts of Chicago without a car and many others do it. What else do you need? If you're looking for praise for your car-less lifestyle, the overarching point is no one cares. People don't hang out with each other based on what transportation you take (or not take).
I don't quite understand what you're looking for. Outside of NYC, the North Side of Chicago plus the neighborhoods adjacent to the Loop are probably the easiest areas in the country to live without having a car. What more do you want? Pretty much no one here is going to think twice if you're using public transportation and don't own a car. There is a large critical mass of people who do the same here. By the same token, there isn't some type of ideological anti-car movement. No one here is going to either praise you or criticize you for not owning a car. If you go to a party or a restaurant or bar, absolutely no one cares about what type of transportation you took to get there. It's not even a topic of conversation outside of complaining about a train breaking down or terrible traffic or a crazy Uber driver or bad weather (in each case everyone then just nods and agrees that it all blows).
TLDR; no one is going to GAF whether you own a car or not. You can very reasonably live in many parts of Chicago without a car and many others do it. What else do you need? If you're looking for praise for your car-less lifestyle, the overarching point is no one cares. People don't hang out with each other based on what transportation you take (or not take).
This is true. I have a friend who lives in the city who likely makes close to what the OP makes and as long as I've known him he never owned a car.
My other friend's dad was semi-retired (like 60) and would work a week or so in Chicago each month as a consultant and stayed with his daughter when he came into town. I've seen him on the El multiple times. He has plenty of money.
I don't know what kind of profession the OP is in, but I would imagine, as others have stated, that few people will care how you get to work. Unless say, you're a real estate agent and your clients expect you to drive them around, it likely doesn't matter. I've met a realtor that tries to emphasize showing places to clients while going around on a bike.
I don't quite understand what you're looking for. Outside of NYC, the North Side of Chicago plus the neighborhoods adjacent to the Loop are probably the easiest areas in the country to live without having a car. What more do you want? Pretty much no one here is going to think twice if you're using public transportation and don't own a car. There is a large critical mass of people who do the same here. By the same token, there isn't some type of ideological anti-car movement. No one here is going to either praise you or criticize you for not owning a car. If you go to a party or a restaurant or bar, absolutely no one cares about what type of transportation you took to get there. It's not even a topic of conversation outside of complaining about a train breaking down or terrible traffic or a crazy Uber driver or bad weather (in each case everyone then just nods and agrees that it all blows).
TLDR; no one is going to GAF whether you own a car or not. You can very reasonably live in many parts of Chicago without a car and many others do it. What else do you need? If you're looking for praise for your car-less lifestyle, the overarching point is no one cares. People don't hang out with each other based on what transportation you take (or not take).
Hey, that's fine with me. The thread wasn't really about whether or not others "care" about and/or "praise" a car-free lifestyle. I was really rather interested in the overall urbanity of living in these neighborhoods, of which one major aspect is living without a car/walking/using PT.
My experience when I was up there last (about six months ago) reflected disappointment, only because it seemed so few people were walking and/or using PT (other than taking the L to/from the Loop) in these neighborhoods, seemingly choosing instead to drive everywhere. Like I pointed out further up the thread, there were surface lots (full of cars) in many of the places I checked out. It seems to me that many Chicagoans don't mind at all taking the L to/from the loop from/to LP or LV for the work-home commute, but then would prefer a car to get groceries or hit up another neighborhood on the weekend. That's fine. It's just something I was curious about.
I suppose I look at car-free living as less of a utilitarian choice and more of an ideological one (as in a preference), which would probably put me in the vast minority of people there. But Chicago is in my price range; NYC isn't. Chicago has my heart; NYC doesn't. So it is what it is. If the commonality of car-free living is there in these neighborhoods, that's really good enough for me. I just haven't experienced this personally throughout my trips to the city, at least not to the level I expected.
I agree that the neighborhoods you're referring to are the most urban in the country outside of NYC, subsequently offering the best options for car-free living. If I would have seen people walking everywhere and jumping on/off buses and trains when I was in those neighborhoods a few months ago, I would have never created this thread. I suppose it was my dismay and doubt that led to this. Many forum users have confirmed that concern. Some have disagreed. Nonetheless, Chicago might fall short of my (admittedly high and probably unrealistic) expectations regarding urbanity, so I'll just have to decide whether or not the outstanding value that Chicago offers is worth the overall drawbacks (taxes, crime, COL, weather, etc.) and less-than-expected urbanity.
I really wanna know at time you saw all of these empty buses on the North Side. On weekends or non-rush hour weekdays I can understand fairly open buses, but certainly not at rush hour. The drivers pack people like sardines. I'm talking people pressed up against the main door. This happens every day, especially on the express buses that take LSD.
Regarding the L, it certainly gets used by Chicagoans for substantially more than just going to the Loop. It may not be the most convenient public transit system in the world when it comes to going east/west in certain parts of the city, but it's still getting used regularly for that purpose. The Loop just essentially becomes the transfer hub, assuming people don't want to take a bus to transfer to different line. You'll also see a lot of trips on the same line with people going further distances than just say going 2 stops from Lakeview to Lincoln Park. That said, my friends and I have joked in the past that we're Red Line people because when it comes to going out a neighborhood like Wicker Park feels like it's too much of a hassle versus the bars down the street or a neighborhood away via the Red Line. I've had other friends joke the same about the Blue Line.
Also, as others have noted, NYC is an outlier when it comes to car ownership. You know this, everyone knows this. While I'm sure it is disappointing for you to realize that your expectations of Chicago might have been higher than reality, the fact of the matter remains that Chicago is one of the few cities in America where it is quite easy to live car free by choice and which is highly walkable. If Chicago isn't up to your expectations, then frankly no city might be in the end.
I really wanna know at time you saw all of these empty buses on the North Side. On weekends or non-rush hour weekdays I can understand fairly open buses, but certainly not at rush hour. The drivers pack people like sardines. I'm talking people pressed up against the main door. This happens every day, especially on the express buses that take LSD.
Regarding the L, it certainly gets used by Chicagoans for substantially more than just going to the Loop. It may not be the most convenient public transit system in the world when it comes to going east/west in certain parts of the city, but it's still getting used regularly for that purpose. The Loop just essentially becomes the transfer hub, assuming people don't want to take a bus to transfer to different line. You'll also see a lot of trips on the same line with people going further distances than just say going 2 stops from Lakeview to Lincoln Park. That said, my friends and I have joked in the past that we're Red Line people because when it comes to going out a neighborhood like Wicker Park feels like it's too much of a hassle versus the bars down the street or a neighborhood away via the Red Line. I've had other friends joke the same about the Blue Line.
Also, as others have noted, NYC is an outlier when it comes to car ownership. You know this, everyone knows this. While I'm sure it is disappointing for you to realize that your expectations of Chicago might have been higher than reality, the fact of the matter remains that Chicago is one of the few cities in America where it is quite easy to live car free by choice and which is highly walkable. If Chicago isn't up to your expectations, then frankly no city might be in the end.
I was in these neighborhoods on a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday last October, toward the middle of the month. The weather was pretty nice actually, so I don't think that was a major factor. I spent more time on the buses on purpose, because I feel they'd more accurately reflect my daily PT needs (over the train) because my work/life wouldn't revolve around going to/from the Loop, if I were to live/move there. The buses were absolutely packed (like sardines, absolutely) in/around the Loop. No doubt about it. For instance, however, I took the 8 bus up to Lakeview (from the West Loop) to hit a show at Schuba's. This was Saturday evening. Maybe around 9?? I know Halsted is a major thoroughfare, but the bus wasn't that busy. I figured it'd be crazy. Wasn't. But there were cars everywhere. And I was purposely watching people who were going to Schuba's for the show. Well, people were parking everywhere around that area and getting out of cars to go to the show. I figured I'd see more people walking over from blocks surrounding the venue. I guess I was just a little disappointed with it. Lest I assume this is an outlier experience, it seems to jibe with what I've seen in general in Chicago throughout the years. It's just that this last time I purposely did some exploring in/around the neighborhoods I personally find most appealing, but it was just far more surface parking lots, cars, and traffic than I expected.
But you're absolutely right. NYC is on a different plane of existence. It's not on my radar at all. Chicago is as close as I'm going to get, especially considering my practicality and frugality. Plus, it's kind of a "mecca" for a lot of people who grew up in the Midwest, and I'm no different in that regard. I appreciate the Midwestern culture. It's something I strongly identify with. I just want more for less, which is my fault. I admit fault. I guess I was just looking to have an honest and open conversation with Chicagoans about whether or not my newly-formed doubt/disappointment is worth worrying about. It seems that my concerns are founded in reality, but the value makes up for most/all of it.
I think a lot of people do share the OP's ideals, if not the obsession with transit as an ideological choice beyond desiring an urban lifestyle that mimics New York or Europe. If they drive there it's because there are limitations to things like L service. The OP would likely be happy being with likeminded individuals in an urban environment more to their liking and needs to stop overthinking parking lots... Chicago may be the Midwestern answer to NYC but it's still the midwest and people with the car centric attitudes the OP grew up with in Detroit exist in Illinois, too. But there is a substantial progressive population in the neighborhoods they are considering for them to fall in with.
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