Amazon looking for new headquarters...listen up because Chicago is a top contender. (Lincoln: real estate market, neighborhoods)

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Atlantis? lol

They have highly advanced technology.

[Vlajos]

They definitely were ahead of there time with lasers.

Atlantis: The Lost Continent (1961)

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I disagree, the Old Post Office if renovated will be gorgeous. And it has way better connectivity to the larger metro area. A few years ago plans there were drawn up to look like this. Most of it can be office instead of hotels, some residential would probably be great:


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20110722120423

Originally Posted by Chicago76

With some architectural imagination, it's pretty easy to see how the post office could be redone in a modern fashion (see Vlajos' post). I agree with you that there's something really sexy about the potential along the riverfront, but all of that potential misses a key element of the RFP: transit. The Post Office site has the blue, brown, purple, orange and pink lines within 1-3 blocks of a "supersite" straddling the river. It's also closer to Union Station and the Circle interchange and LaSalle metra. It's not as close to Ogilvie as Wolf, but it's much closer than Goose.

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The US Steel site is a terrible choice. I think Rahm is smart enough not to promote that in the response to the RFP.

Lots of folks see the same pluses and minuses -- not sure that means anything as far as Amazon, but the fact is there are some aspects of the RFP that Amazon seems to be tailoring specifically toward Chicago AND the potential for both rehab and new construction that would be almost too perfect to think that they have not at least pre-selected the Post Office.

While I like the ingenuity of folks suggesting Goose Island or the Finkl site those folks probably don't want to acknowledge that a big reason that Goose Island has NOT been utilized for a traditional office hub before and why there more proposals for Finkl to be redeveloped as residential and retail is the pattern of transit even for folks who live in otherwise well served parts of Chicago is CRAP to get these sites. Part of it has to do with the fact that for decades both these areas were pretty much exclusively served by trucks which naturally make for lousy conflicts with buses BUT the other reality is that due to the extreme "hub and spoke" nature of even CTA rapid transit lines is a GIANT hassle to try to get anywhere outside of the Loop during rush hour on either CTA or Metra. More than a few times I have been in the city at someplace like DePaul's Lincoln Park campus or near where my sister lives in Lincoln Square and the the futility of trying to get get anywhere on over crowded trains makes the whole effort seem like a salmon swimming upstream. Using apps that allow you to compare driving time like Waze to the transit time features of Google Maps make it easy to just get in your own car or rely on Lyft / Uber. Problem is that won't scale and Amazon has some come of unicorn workforce that will all walk to work / ride bicycles they pretty much HAVE to focus on stuff that is in the Loop are real close to it.

The nice thing about the Post Office is they get to "make it their own" and THAT is really more important than having any distinctive "tower" along the river or what have you. Even really posh interior towers like the that recently opened by Hyatt don't really have the exterior distinctiveness to help brand anything. That is the harsh lesson that Sears learned both when the had the tower and then when they tried to get top dollar selling it. The potential to develop the long neglected site(s) near the Post Office like those that lie between Harrison & 18th -- that is a HUGE amount of essentially green grass that could uniquely accommodate a "corporate campus" in the style of Apple in Silicon Valley while getting all the glory of "urban redevelopment". It could also work well with the push that Amazon is making to get into "bricks and mortar" retail with both the Amazon and Whole Food "brands" that as they would get unique exposure as the background for Soldier Field and even Sox games where there there are aerial shots, these are the kinds of things that egomaniacs like Bezos just can't resist...

[WRnative]

It's actually shocking that nobody in this thread mentions the big reason that Amazon may not seriously consider Chicago, despite its otherwise wonderful attractions.

See posts 451, 459, 461, and especially 478 in this thread.

//www.city-data.com/forum/gener...ir-new-47.html

[compactspace]

Originally Posted by WRnative

It's actually shocking that nobody in this thread mentions the big reason that Amazon may not seriously consider Chicago, despite its otherwise wonderful attractions.

See posts 451, 459, 461, and especially 478 in this thread.

//www.city-data.com/forum/gener...ir-new-47.html

Because it's largely irrelevant.

[damba]

Originally Posted by compactspace

Because it's largely irrelevant.

Agreed. Amazon isn't choosing based on the condition of CPS' finances.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by compactspace

Because it's largely irrelevant.

In the absence of ever higher taxes, why is the inability to fund services, especially educational services, irrelevant?

This is delusional thinking that has made Chicago, Illinois, and even the entire U.S. subject to a financial doomsday clock.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by damba

Agreed. Amazon isn't choosing based on the condition of CPS' finances.

Originally Posted by WRnative

In the absence of ever higher taxes, why is the inability to fund services, especially educational services, irrelevant?

This is delusional thinking that has made Chicago, Illinois, and even the entire U.S. subject to a financial doomsday clock.

The fact is that the Amazon damned well knows that should they choose to come here their employees are going to get stuck with the elevated taxes that Illinois has imposed as well as things like property tax and any corporate tax, and that means the firm will have their "list of concessions" that the city and state may offer. So in the sense that if Chicago instead had their financial house in order they might be able to say to Amazon "we don't need to bribe nobody". Amazon might not like that, as the fact is that the UPFRONT costs of any major new office are always a bigger deal than the stuff down the line so it makes sense to go with a city that is willing to deal and make the early part of the deal less risky...

The thing of it is there have also been studies that show these sorts of deals are ALWAYS a raw deal for the cities and states -- it is a classic case of politicians not listening to the voice of reason. And in a way you can't blame em -- it makes em look important to have press conferences, go to ribbon cuttings and get all the free publicity that comes from these things. And the tax incentives and other stuff they are "giving away" might not have really add to much as there are always escape clauses for both sides.

What is really weird though is that these things do hurt the local businesses -- they literally pay the same or maybe more in taxes, there is no upside for them either, as things like rents go up. Heck it also increases competition for workers, increases congestion and all kinds of other negatives. Some of the firms that were sorta feeling squeezed will leave, and there can be a negative backlash.

There is the hope that the new buildings and such are really nice, and the employment is solid, and there at least not a digger of ongoing debt deeper, but the odds are against it...

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by chet everett

The fact is that the Amazon damned well knows that should they choose to come here their employees are going to get stuck with the elevated taxes that Illinois has imposed as well as things like property tax and any corporate tax, and that means the firm will have their "list of concessions" that the city and state may offer. So in the sense that if Chicago instead had their financial house in order they might be able to say to Amazon "we don't need to bribe nobody". Amazon might not like that, as the fact is that the UPFRONT costs of any major new office are always a bigger deal than the stuff down the line so it makes sense to go with a city that is willing to deal and make the early part of the deal less risky...

The thing of it is there have also been studies that show these sorts of deals are ALWAYS a raw deal for the cities and states -- it is a classic case of politicians not listening to the voice of reason. And in a way you can't blame em -- it makes em look important to have press conferences, go to ribbon cuttings and get all the free publicity that comes from these things. And the tax incentives and other stuff they are "giving away" might not have really add to much as there are always escape clauses for both sides.

What is really weird though is that these things do hurt the local businesses -- they literally pay the same or maybe more in taxes, there is no upside for them either, as things like rents go up. Heck it also increases competition for workers, increases congestion and all kinds of other negatives.

This isn't a zero sum game for Chicago. It's up to 50,000 new jobs for Chicago. 50,000 salaries of over 100k average spending money on those very Chicago businesses you seem to think are going to be victimized. That's also a lot of income tax and a lot of sales tax.

There are indirect and intangible benefits that need to be considered here.

Plus, it's not like cities like Boston don't also have high taxes plus higher housing costs.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

This isn't a zero sum game for Chicago. It's up to 50,000 new jobs for Chicago. 50,000 salaries of over 100k average spending money on those very Chicago businesses you seem to think are going to be victimized. That's also a lot of income tax and a lot of sales tax.

There are indirect and intangible benefits that need to be considered here.

Plus, it's not like cities like Boston don't also have high taxes plus higher housing costs.

The thing is those "new jobs" are not really going to "new people". The people largely get hired from the existing labor pool. And frankly if they were "new people" it would be even worse -- those additional people would need more services -- the obvious stuff like schools, very likely increases in law enforcement, fire protection personnel and a whole lot of other city services. There would be increased demands for things like zonings, code enforcement, even garbage collection. The economists who do the baselines for this sort of thing know how it works. It is really really a terrible idea to give the relocating firm any tax incentives.

It does not make sense for ANY city really, growing or dying, cheap or expensive, crowded or unpopulated. But the pols like it SO much... https://www.brookings.edu/articles/s...orth-the-cost/

And to be clear, it is not like I am saying that other cities will not also engage in the bidding way. Heck that is exactly what will happen. And it will make the give away worse. The same craziness happened when the Sox threatened to go to Florida. They really did not want to go there, but the cities in Florida were falling all over themselves to get MLB. Never mind that those deals are even dumber, they still happen. The money that gets thrown away on McPier does nothing for Chicago or Illinois, and I love watching the White Sox but they got a KILLER deal on their stadium and it still does not give them the revenue they need to be competitive.