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Old 10-16-2017, 12:50 AM
 
2,112 posts, read 925,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
No it isn't and no it didn't. That's called redevelopment. The truth is that no white people in any numbers have ever voluntarily moved to a predominantly African-American neighborhood in our city without massive redevelopment projects. As an aside, that's kind of surprising to me given how liberal our city is, or pretends to be.
Gentrification isn't about race or the process

Gentrification is nothing more than a lower economic class neighborhood that has an influx of upper income population. Has nothing to do with race or whether it's achieved organically or planned.

Bronzeville is being gentrified, by upper middle class Blacks.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
4,478 posts, read 7,913,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slats Grobnick View Post
Gentrification isn't about race or the process

Gentrification is nothing more than a lower economic class neighborhood that has an influx of upper income population. Has nothing to do with race or whether it's achieved organically or planned.

Bronzeville is being gentrified, by upper middle class Blacks.
Gentrification is a term which refers to a specific process. I hate being a grammar bleep but I just think the term is completely abused. A developer taking a bulldozer to a public housing project and then putting up cinder-block town homes with granite and stainless and selling them to slightly underpaid young professionals, while setting aside 5% of them for affordable housing to alleviate the white guilt which comes with such an endeavor, is not gentrification! I guess we can agree to disagree here. I don't think we disagree on what happened. It's just about what to call it.

Anyway, I strongly agree that gentrification isn't just about white people displacing minorities. It can be more affluent minorities displacing less affluent minorities. This doesn't spur indignant articles in dnainfo and the Reader and coffee shop vandalism quite like the former does, but it's the same thing. There were definitely affluent African-American professionals buying in Bronzeville during the housing boom, though I don't know the current status of this.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:29 AM
 
2,112 posts, read 925,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Gentrification is a term which refers to a specific process. I hate being a grammar bleep but I just think the term is completely abused. A developer taking a bulldozer to a public housing project and then putting up cinder-block town homes with granite and stainless and selling them to slightly underpaid young professionals, while setting aside 5% of them for affordable housing to alleviate the white guilt which comes with such an endeavor, is not gentrification! I guess we can agree to disagree here. I don't think we disagree on what happened. It's just about what to call it.

Anyway, I strongly agree that gentrification isn't just about white people displacing minorities. It can be more affluent minorities displacing less affluent minorities. This doesn't spur indignant articles in dnainfo and the Reader and coffee shop vandalism quite like the former does, but it's the same thing. There were definitely affluent African-American professionals buying in Bronzeville during the housing boom, though I don't know the current status of this.
So those huge mega developments on Milwaukee Ave in Logan Square square aren't gentrification?
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
4,478 posts, read 7,913,680 times
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Originally Posted by Slats Grobnick View Post
So those huge mega developments on Milwaukee Ave in Logan Square square aren't gentrification?
I don't think so no. It's development in response to demand.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:17 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 4,548,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Gentrification is a term which refers to a specific process. I hate being a grammar bleep but I just think the term is completely abused. A developer taking a bulldozer to a public housing project and then putting up cinder-block town homes with granite and stainless and selling them to slightly underpaid young professionals, while setting aside 5% of them for affordable housing to alleviate the white guilt which comes with such an endeavor, is not gentrification! I guess we can agree to disagree here. I don't think we disagree on what happened. It's just about what to call it.

Anyway, I strongly agree that gentrification isn't just about white people displacing minorities. It can be more affluent minorities displacing less affluent minorities. This doesn't spur indignant articles in dnainfo and the Reader and coffee shop vandalism quite like the former does, but it's the same thing. There were definitely affluent African-American professionals buying in Bronzeville during the housing boom, though I don't know the current status of this.
Do you think high income Blacks will be buying in South Shore? I personally have seen this happen but it usually is closer to 67th street aka the northern terminus of the neighborhood.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Do you think high income Blacks will be buying in South Shore? I personally have seen this happen but it usually is closer to 67th street aka the northern terminus of the neighborhood.
Maybe but I don't know if it'll be enough to lead to any substantial changes in the fortunes of that neighborhood. Because Chicago is a very liberal city which fancies itself as progressive and diverse, folks around here do not often acknowledge that we do not have large numbers of African-American professionals in Chicago, and that there is still inequality even when the "magic" degree is obtained.

Only about 18% of Chicago's African-Americans have a bachelors degree or higher. And their unemployment rate, and the rate of those working in non-college jobs, is considerably greater than it is in other demographics. And their earnings are lower too. 1 out of 10 white college grads earns over 120k, while only 1 out of 50 black college graduates earns that much.

Race, College, and College Completion in Chicago | Chicago magazine | The 312 February 2013

Study: Even for college-educated blacks, road to full-time work is rocky - Chicago Tribune

For middle-class blacks, success can be a double-edged sword | Chicago Reporter

Unless we bring back high-paying non-college jobs, such as manufacturing, I think we'll continue to see displacement of the poor by largely white upper middle classes in neighborhoods "lucky" enough to be chosen by first-wave gentrifiers or developers. Everything else will remain mired in high poverty and crime, or lower-middle class stagnation. To be fair to Chicago, that's also happening in several emerging cities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.8b56cd43da34
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
3,899 posts, read 6,264,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Anyway, I strongly agree that gentrification isn't just about white people displacing minorities. It can be more affluent minorities displacing less affluent minorities.
I think of gentrification as simply being more affluent people displacing less affluent people. The displaced residents don't necessarily have to be "minorities".
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
4,478 posts, read 7,913,680 times
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Originally Posted by andrew61 View Post
I think of gentrification as simply being more affluent people displacing less affluent people. The displaced residents don't necessarily have to be "minorities".
I know. I know. The process itself is driven by money, yes. We can look at statistics and see who is displacing who but we don't have to if we don't want to. But if we look at the cold numbers, gentrification here in Chicago has largely been white people moving into Hispanic neighborhoods, or perhaps older eastern European neighborhoods in the case of West Town. There have been few cases of upper income minorities replacing lower income minorities.

Last edited by BRU67; 10-16-2017 at 04:14 PM..
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Old 10-16-2017, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
4,478 posts, read 7,913,680 times
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Originally Posted by noid_1985 View Post
Bru, what’s your meaning for gentrification? Is it more about the residential development vs commercial development?
Sorry Noid, I missed this. I define it as a progression, which starts out with a run down working class urban neighborhood and ends with an upscale urban neighborhood. Modern examples which we're all familiar with are West Town, Logan Square, Pilsen, and, now, east Humboldt Park.

I think residential and commercial are intertwined in the process. After all, some of the iconic hip places of the 1990s - Czar Bar, Rainbo Club, Gold Star, Double Door, and Fireside Bowl for example - were longstanding local dives which were transformed into destinations by first wave gentrifiers. Those certainly fueled the interest which ultimately led to the Starbucks, high end restaurants, and boutiques which came later.

I consider that distinct from developers coming in, demolishing existing structures, and then building brand new or completely renovated stuff to draw in the middle classes. I realize it can be a fine line, but I do see it as different.
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Old 10-16-2017, 05:18 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 4,548,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Sorry Noid, I missed this. I define it as a progression, which starts out with a run down working class urban neighborhood and ends with an upscale urban neighborhood. Modern examples which we're all familiar with are West Town, Logan Square, Pilsen, and, now, east Humboldt Park.

I think residential and commercial are intertwined in the process. After all, some of the iconic hip places of the 1990s - Czar Bar, Rainbo Club, Gold Star, Double Door, and Fireside Bowl for example - were longstanding local dives which were transformed into destinations by first wave gentrifiers. Those certainly fueled the interest which ultimately led to the Starbucks, high end restaurants, and boutiques which came later.

I consider that distinct from developers coming in, demolishing existing structures, and then building brand new or completely renovated stuff to draw in the middle classes. I realize it can be a fine line, but I do see it as different.
Do you see the latter happening in South Shore?
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