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Old 10-25-2017, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
4,479 posts, read 7,920,316 times
Reputation: 3393

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
I would call Portage Park and Belmont-Cragin outlying areas.

In the 1960s, Lincoln Park was a blighted area except for the couple of blocks along the park itself. The well-to-do part of the city consisted of Lake Shore Drive, Astor, State Parkway, and Dearborn from Division to North Avenue. That's it. Most younger people have absolutely no idea how bad the central city was. But the outer "boroughs" were nicer than they are now.
As is South Shore, which ties into my original argument that the come up is a ways off. Portage Park and Belmont-Craigin are receiving mostly Hispanic working class families, which is Kryptonite to hipsters. I don't think South Shore is in that same boat but it's still an outlying area.

Lincoln Park was to some measure blighted, as famously depicted in the 1970s documentary "Now We Live on Clifton." It was one of the earliest neighborhoods to experience revitalization. By the 1990s it was pretty far along, probably to the point where you would have said it was fully gentrified.

I would agree with you that the affluence continued and it's more affluent than it was in the 1990s. Part of this might have had to do with continued gentrification but a lot of it was simply due to the growing gap between the wealthy and everyone else. The Lincoln Park demographic simply makes more money than it did then, while most everybody else makes less.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:37 PM
 
1,590 posts, read 1,919,534 times
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Low income Hispanic neighborhoods, even with gangs, disinvestments and stigmas, still remain stable enough for complete turnarounds. We've seen this in virtually all north/northwest neighborhoods either gentrified or on the upspring.

On the hand, low income black neighborhoods simply fall too hard and mirror western world warzones. Different populations. Different behaviors. Different enablers. Without massive population intake, these neighborhoods stay that way.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
4,479 posts, read 7,920,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBideon View Post
Low income Hispanic neighborhoods, even with gangs, disinvestments and stigmas, still remain stable enough for complete turnarounds. We've seen this in virtually all north/northwest neighborhoods either gentrified or on the upspring.
I don't disagree at all. However, I don't think the outer neighborhoods the low-income Hispanics are moving to are going to gentrify themselves any time soon. They possibly might in the next generation, but I think that's 20 years off, if it even happens.

I am not saying these bungalow belt neighborhoods are bad, dangerous, or even unpleasant to live in. I think they're great places to live, in fact, and they are underrated. You can get a really cool vintage brick house with a garage and a yard for what you'll pay for a 1-bedroom condo (with the option of a parking space for $35k more) in a gentrified neighborhood, and they are usually safe. But they just are not the type of neighborhood that today's first wave gentrifiers are going to. These neighborhoods are overrated, IMHO, but you can't deny their value if you're looking to invest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBideon View Post
On the hand, low income black neighborhoods simply fall too hard and mirror western world warzones. Different populations. Different behaviors. Different enablers. Without massive population intake, these neighborhoods stay that way.
This is a sad truth, and a disappointing one given that everyone knows this but those who are kneeling for equality won't do a damn thing about it other than symbolic gestures and lippy social media posts, which won't work. If the social injustice people really cared, they would provide said population intake and move to these neighborhoods.

Don't hold your breath.

Last edited by BRU67; 10-25-2017 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:32 PM
 
6,418 posts, read 5,757,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBideon View Post
Low income Hispanic neighborhoods, even with gangs, disinvestments and stigmas, still remain stable enough for complete turnarounds. We've seen this in virtually all north/northwest neighborhoods either gentrified or on the upspring.

On the hand, low income black neighborhoods simply fall too hard and mirror western world warzones. Different populations. Different behaviors. Different enablers. Without massive population intake, these neighborhoods stay that way.
Sadly (for blacks; happily for Hispanics) this is mostly true. The partially gentrified area north of Hyde Park had to go almost to greenfield development before turning around, something we never see with Mexican, Polish, etc. neighborhoods.
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Old 10-25-2017, 07:36 PM
 
6,418 posts, read 5,757,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
I would agree with you that the affluence continued and it's more affluent than it was in the 1990s. Part of this might have had to do with continued gentrification but a lot of it was simply due to the growing gap between the wealthy and everyone else. The Lincoln Park demographic simply makes more money than it did then, while most everybody else makes less.
Not really; most of the new money in west Lincoln Park is from transplants and suburbanites, not the wealthy getting wealthier (which they did). The data pretty consistently show that "everybody else" does not make less, except in relative terms; they make more, but "less more" than the wealthy.

It was not that many decades ago that the Brady Bunch, on TV, was fretting about the price of butter. No middle-class family talks like that any more. Everyone can afford butter. They are fretting about the price of a University of Iowa education, and the cost of real estate close to work (Belmont-Cragin being considered NOCD, "not our class dear" in case Urban Dictionary doesn't define it).
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Not really; most of the new money in west Lincoln Park is from transplants and suburbanites, not the wealthy getting wealthier (which they did). The data pretty consistently show that "everybody else" does not make less, except in relative terms; they make more, but "less more" than the wealthy.

It was not that many decades ago that the Brady Bunch, on TV, was fretting about the price of butter. No middle-class family talks like that any more. Everyone can afford butter. They are fretting about the price of a University of Iowa education, and the cost of real estate close to work (Belmont-Cragin being considered NOCD, "not our class dear" in case Urban Dictionary doesn't define it).
I think gap between the average Chicagoan in one of the white collar professions such as law, health care, risk management, finance, and international trade and his or her middle class counterpart is much, much greater today than it was in the 1990s.

It's a sad commentary that a family in Belmont-Craigin making a household income of $60,000 is considered middle-class now. A college grad in the right profession can make twice that, easy. The income gap between the white-collar professional class and what was then the middle class wasn't as great 25 years ago as it is now.

Of course, that doesn't take into account the fact that housing in neighborhoods that these professionals find acceptable is at least double the cost of housing in the "middle class" areas, but that is an issue of their own creation.

I think we're just defining "wealthy" a little differently. I would agree that the one percenters are comparatively more wealthy than everyone, including white-collar professionals, than they were in the 1990s. But to say today's white-collar professionals are like "everybody else" is a bit naive.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,569 posts, read 6,391,085 times
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This is true.
Even the worst Mexican neighborhood like Back of the yards is flourishing with business.
It might not be yoga or craft beers, but there's definitely business.

Black hoods on the other hand.... a wig shop there, a liquor store here, a greasy chicken wing joint over there.
Never seen a video game store, a clothing store, a sit down dine in restaurant, etc. in black hoods.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:39 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 4,558,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacran View Post
This is true.
Even the worst Mexican neighborhood like Back of the yards is flourishing with business.
It might not be yoga or craft beers, but there's definitely business.

Black hoods on the other hand.... a wig shop there, a liquor store here, a greasy chicken wing joint over there.
Never seen a video game store, a clothing store, a sit down dine in restaurant, etc. in black hoods.
Clothing stores that do exist are usually run by FOB Levantines who cater to young guys trying to look like Migos. In other words, the kind of store you would expect to see on 71st Street near the electric line.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,569 posts, read 6,391,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Clothing stores that do exist are usually run by FOB Levantines who cater to young guys trying to look like Migos. In other words, the kind of store you would expect to see on 71st Street near the electric line.
Yeah... or what's that other one.... Top and bottom.

That's why I like hyde park or Oak park. There's real black business.
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Old 10-26-2017, 08:34 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 4,558,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacran View Post
Yeah... or what's that other one.... Top and bottom.

That's why I like hyde park or Oak park. There's real black business.
Hyde Park and Oak Park at least have Black businesses like fitness studios. This doesn't exist in South Shore to my knowledge.
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