Why are there so many threads trashing South Side and West Side neighborhoods? (Chicago: rent, houses)

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Oh, they don't pay well enough. Got it. Wonder if that would remain the case if Americans were willing to work these jobs and easy to exploit illegal immigrants weren't necessary to fill them (or as many anyway). Don't know the answer but it's an interesting thought.

Well, one could easily speculate that in the event of decreased labor supply, the cost of labor would increase.

[Humboldt1]

I still think containment thru limiting population growth among the poor is the way to limit poverty.

You can't make people work if they don't want to work. My first job was as a sandwich artist at subway. I know a lot of illegals who work at subway.

Yes, there are still entry level jobs out there for those willing to accept low wages.

Most illegals work for minimum wage or slightly above, though usually with no insurance or benefits. Clearly, this is not a living wage, especially for those with kids, though limiting kids to 2 would help this.

I say by limiting their numbers we will have fewer problems to deal with. If we can't change poor people at least we can limit their growth and thus limit the problem.

I am a proponent of job training but for those who feel entitled I am sick of paying for them and wish there were fewer of them to deal with. Limiting their population growth, would go a long way to contain this problem.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Well, one could easily speculate that in the event of decreased labor supply, the cost of labor would increase.

Good call, of course. If Americans had been willing to work these jobs, we wouldn't have needed the flood of immigrants and maybe the wages in the unskilled service sector would be higher now.

[oakparkdude]

My understanding of the new welfare laws is that individual no longer have the right to unlimited amount of government aid. There is now a lifetime limit, the purpose of which, is to encourage individuals to get off welfare as soon as possible. Not quite the same as a cap on child benefits, but in the long run, it may serve the same purpose. The culture of dependency, such as it is, has developed over decades, so its unreasonable to assume it will disappear overnight.

[Manigault]

This thread has moved a long way from the west side.

[jessiegirl_98]

Originally Posted by Manigault

This thread has moved a long way from the west side.

Yes, it has. Again, keep it chicago related or it will be moved to politics.

[cohdane]

Back to the West Side-- I grew up on in North Austin before my family "fled" to the suburbs. When I drove a friend by to see my old apartment, my back yard fence was topped with razor wire and there was a crack vial next to it. (We didn't linger.) That was in the '90's.

As an adult I lived for a while near Roosevelt & Western in a garden level apartment that had several attempted break-ins. I personally was the victim of a smash and grab at Kostner & 290 (where my Dad grew up).

The original poster is one of the lucky ones. He/she is smart and lucked into parents and a school that could support her/his abilities. Most West Side kids are not so lucky. In my first-hand experience with the West Side, I'd say a big part of the solution will be education.

I "adopted" a family of nine kids (some siblings and some cousins) while living near Western. For years, I took them around, helped them when I could with school and tried to show them another side of life. I'm sure it DIDN'T HELP AT ALL because their challenges were too great.

They were good kids. Honest. Attended school every day. And by eighth grade COULDN'T READ AT A THIRD GRADE LEVEL. Tell me how you attend school every day for eight years and don't learn to read. In addition, when the area I was in started to gentrify, they didn't get shuttled off to the south suburbs. They should've been so lucky. They got relocated deeper into the West Side to an apartment that's front door was literally off its hinges. And a building that had no front door at all. Try that on for size when it's 20 below and you're heating the apartment with a stove.

I once offered to get the kids library cards. Their mom refused. At first I was outraged. But over the years came to realize that just about anything decent any of the kids had in their possession got STOLEN. Either in person or from a playground, etc. As for helping her kids to learn to read, guess what, mom was a product of the same schools and she couldn't read either.

Would the situation have been helped if there weren't so many "fatherless" kids? Sure. But not as much as if there had been an effective school program.

I once sat on my front stoop and asked the oldest girl what she wanted to be when she grew up. She was about 12 at the time. She didn't answer. So I smiled and told her I had a magic wand and if I could wave it right now, what would she want to be? Her whole face lit up beautifully for a moment before she answered,

"I want to work at McDonald's."

That was her greatest dream.

I helped her study for her graduation requirement Constitution test (a truly surreal and ironic experience). She "graduated." About a year and a half later, I heard from her younger sister that she was pregnant and that's why she never came around any more.

At least one of her charming, sweet, bright brothers got sucked into a gang (and tagged the bumper of my car with a tiny gang symbol so it wouldn't get broken into-- a friend noticed this). A cousin was later banned from my apartment for stealing my credit card.

I could go on.

The point is, I semi-grew up in it and saw it from a comfortable distance first hand. You can't get a minimum wage job if you can't read the application for it. Nothing will change on the West Side until the schools do. ALL of the schools.

The original poster should hold her/his head high and forget the South Side. If you're as good as you say you are, you're above meaningless rivalry. Both neighborhoods are screwed. If you want to be indignant about something, be indignant about how shafted little kids in both neighborhoods are. All they did was get born in the wrong place.

[Humboldt1]

That was truly a great post.

Clearly, I am not any sort of bleeding heart, but I really appreciate your honesty in that last post.

Education, as you said so well, is the key. Without it, we are all lost.

I would like to hear more about your experience and others who grew up on the west side (south side too).

[Drover]

The schools can't do it all. They won't improve until the last vestiges of anti-intellectualism and marginalization of "sellouts" are stamped out of the black culture.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by cohdane

Nothing will change on the West Side until the schools do. ALL of the schools.

Right, and that will happen when parents become involved and start to care about education and community. The answer is so simple, and lies largely in the hands of the people who are there now. The "ingredients" are there as they say.