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It won’t happen, but that’s not just because it shouldn’t. Aside from Illinois and NY, the Great Lakes states are republican. (And even those states have large republican areas.) Any diversion effort by a conservative government (and it would only be a conservative government that does this) would flip those states blue faster than you can say ‘white working class’.
And since that would spell the end of the GOP (8 Senate seats at the least, in addition to the changing politics of VA, NV and AZ), it simply will never happen. Not now, not ever.
It won’t happen, but that’s not just because it shouldn’t. Aside from Illinois and NY, the Great Lakes states are republican. (And even those states have large republican areas.) Any diversion effort by a conservative government (and it would only be a conservative government that does this) would flip those states blue faster than you can say ‘white working class’.
And since that would spell the end of the GOP (8 Senate seats at the least, in addition to the changing politics of VA, NV and AZ), it simply will never happen. Not now, not ever.
I would not call Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, or Pennsylvania to be Republican states...they are basically purple. As for Minnemsota...if it's not Democratic, what state is?
I would not call Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, or Pennsylvania to be Republican states...they are basically purple. As for Minnemsota...if it's not Democratic, what state is?
That was true ten years ago.
But now, Wisconsin, the home of Scott Walker, Paul Ryan and Ron Johnson, is as Republican as you can get outside the old South. Tammy Baldwin has a good chance of being ousted, even in a favorable mid-term year. It has firm GOP majorities at every level, and those majorities aren't going anywhere.
Michigan is wall-to-wall republican, aside from its senators, who were elected in very good democratic years. They'll probably be gone when their terms are up. Nine of its thirteen federal reps are republican, as are its state legislature and governor.
Ohio is like Wisconsin these days: hard GOP majorities at every level, with one precarious Democratic senator. This state is hard, hard Red. It hasn't been a 'swing' for years.
Pennsylvania is about five years behind Ohio. It also has GOP majorities in its state houses. It re-elected Pat Toomey in 2016. Twelve of its seventeen federal reps are Republican. It has a Democratic governor, but probably not for long.
All four of these states elected Trump. As things stand, they're only going to get more conservative as time goes by.
And this is true for the entire interior of the country: as Bos-Wash and the West Coast become the only concentration of the nation's wealth, power and success, the interior is going to become more reactionary and regressive. Aside from CO, NV, IL, NM and MS, everything between the coasts is hard red and getting redder.
And even Minnesota is veering Republican right now: its polls show a steady tacking to the right. Both of its senate seats are up for re-election, and they're both a 'toss-up'.
All that said, the GOP does not want to reverse these gains by diverting gigaliters of water out of the Great Lakes. It's surrendered the entire northeast and West Coast, along with the more progressive desert states, both of which are growing. Losing the Great Lakes states would put it in permanent minority.
And this is true for the entire interior of the country: as Bos-Wash and the West Coast become the only concentration of the nation's wealth, power and success, the interior is going to become more reactionary and regressive.
wow, talk about a narrow minded view of our country...Do you work for Pelosi or Schumer?
But now, Wisconsin, the home of Scott Walker, Paul Ryan and Ron Johnson, is as Republican as you can get outside the old South. Tammy Baldwin has a good chance of being ousted, even in a favorable mid-term year. It has firm GOP majorities at every level, and those majorities aren't going anywhere.
Michigan is wall-to-wall republican, aside from its senators, who were elected in very good democratic years. They'll probably be gone when their terms are up. Nine of its thirteen federal reps are republican, as are its state legislature and governor.
Ohio is like Wisconsin these days: hard GOP majorities at every level, with one precarious Democratic senator. This state is hard, hard Red. It hasn't been a 'swing' for years.
Pennsylvania is about five years behind Ohio. It also has GOP majorities in its state houses. It re-elected Pat Toomey in 2016. Twelve of its seventeen federal reps are Republican. It has a Democratic governor, but probably not for long.
All four of these states elected Trump. As things stand, they're only going to get more conservative as time goes by.
And this is true for the entire interior of the country: as Bos-Wash and the West Coast become the only concentration of the nation's wealth, power and success, the interior is going to become more reactionary and regressive. Aside from CO, NV, IL, NM and MS, everything between the coasts is hard red and getting redder.
And even Minnesota is veering Republican right now: its polls show a steady tacking to the right. Both of its senate seats are up for re-election, and they're both a 'toss-up'.
All that said, the GOP does not want to reverse these gains by diverting gigaliters of water out of the Great Lakes. It's surrendered the entire northeast and West Coast, along with the more progressive desert states, both of which are growing. Losing the Great Lakes states would put it in permanent minority.
I do get your point, however, obviously speaking about the House here, these are states that frequently have Democrats with higher numbers than Republicans.....but many of the districts have been so gerrymandered so that there are more red seats than blue
All four of them also elected Obama twice, and remember he first campaigned as a more progressive/leftist candidate than how he actually ended up governing. I think what you're seeing in those states is a significant population who is looking for any perceived alternative to the status quo, whether it's "hope and change" or "make American great again." I don't think that makes them red states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compactspace
Aside from CO, NV, IL, NM and MS, everything between the coasts is hard red and getting redder.
Wait...you're listing Mississippi as one of the exceptions to red states between the coasts, but not Wisconsin or Michigan? Dude...
Also, for what it's worth, Texas is becoming less red. It might be awhile before it turns completely, but it's certainly not "getting redder"-- it's doing the opposite.
Last edited by SkylarkPhotoBooth; 02-05-2018 at 03:56 AM..
It would make more sense to re route water from the Pac NW.
We have summer dry seasons, so we don't have that much water to spare.
Also taking water out of the great lakes water shed basin would be an ecological disaster, just take a look at what happened when the Soviets took water out of the Aral sea (4th largest lake in the world) for irrigation of the deserts of central Asia, it almost completely dried up and is a fraction of the size of it's former self.
All four of them also elected Obama twice, and remember he first campaigned as a more progressive/leftist candidate than how he actually ended up governing. I think what you're seeing in those states is a significant population who is looking for any perceived alternative to the status quo, whether it's "hope and change" or "make American great again." I don't think that makes them red states.
Wait...you're listing Mississippi as one of the exceptions to red states between the coasts, but not Wisconsin or Michigan? Dude...
Also, for what it's worth, Texas is becoming less red. It might be awhile before it turns completely, but it's certainly not "getting redder"-- it's doing the opposite.
Sky, this is how i see it...
I am liberal and progressive (and proudly so), but one thing I'm not is a Democrat as most liberal/progressives would think the Democrats represent liberal thought is ludicrous. So my feelings generally form around the idea that I hate the Republicans and I dislike the Democrats. So I don't necessarily have a (real) horse in the race, but obviously I would prefer to see Democrats win elections over Republicans.
Thus I'm going to try to approach this with, I hope, a degree of objectivity:
Republicans stands for a minimal percentage of people, strictly the wealthiest and most powerful. You can't win elections by just appealing to the doner class that owns you. So the GOP must mine votes elsewhere and thus the whole God, Guns and Gay agenda.....not because the party supports it (it doesn't), but so they can get the rubes to vote for them. Problem is, no matter what they do, they're going to come up short on a winning electorate. Thus they go the route of gerrymandering congressional district, suppressing the vote of groups likely to vote against them.
Democrats I don't have a clue what they stand for, I guess pretty much for just staying in power. I believe strictly on the basis of their own personal needs, the populace actually leans more left than right. I realize that is against the CW some of you....but I think it's true. And for the Democrats, unlike the GOP, they do not go after the people that should be their constituents and always come up on the short end. Hey, they aren't there to serve the people.....they're there, just like the GOP, to serve the autocracy, our better, and our owners.
I say all the above just to highlight that I think that without the tactics that the GOP uses to increase its percent of the electorate, you would find Democrats pretty highly outnumber Republicans.
I'm not saying the Democrats are ethical (they're not), but they sure know the way to game the system a helluva lot more than the Republicans. And I do believe that if the game were played fairly, places like MI, WI, and PA (among others) would definitely be considered blue.
But now, Wisconsin, the home of Scott Walker, Paul Ryan and Ron Johnson, is as Republican as you can get outside the old South. Tammy Baldwin has a good chance of being ousted, even in a favorable mid-term year. It has firm GOP majorities at every level, and those majorities aren't going anywhere.
Michigan is wall-to-wall republican, aside from its senators, who were elected in very good democratic years. They'll probably be gone when their terms are up. Nine of its thirteen federal reps are republican, as are its state legislature and governor.
Ohio is like Wisconsin these days: hard GOP majorities at every level, with one precarious Democratic senator. This state is hard, hard Red. It hasn't been a 'swing' for years.
Pennsylvania is about five years behind Ohio. It also has GOP majorities in its state houses. It re-elected Pat Toomey in 2016. Twelve of its seventeen federal reps are Republican. It has a Democratic governor, but probably not for long.
All four of these states elected Trump. As things stand, they're only going to get more conservative as time goes by.
And this is true for the entire interior of the country: as Bos-Wash and the West Coast become the only concentration of the nation's wealth, power and success, the interior is going to become more reactionary and regressive. Aside from CO, NV, IL, NM and MS, everything between the coasts is hard red and getting redder.
And even Minnesota is veering Republican right now: its polls show a steady tacking to the right. Both of its senate seats are up for re-election, and they're both a 'toss-up'.
All that said, the GOP does not want to reverse these gains by diverting gigaliters of water out of the Great Lakes. It's surrendered the entire northeast and West Coast, along with the more progressive desert states, both of which are growing. Losing the Great Lakes states would put it in permanent minority.
Hold on a minute. Some of these states, like Arizona and Texas and Georgia, are starting to take on a "purplish" tone. And states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, states which usually go blue in presidential years, went red in 2016 by the narrowest margins possible ( less than 20 thousand votes out of millions cast--they could easily flip back to the Dems next time. And as of the last few days, Pennsylvania had been ordered by the Supreme Court to remove the very partisan map drawn up by the state GOP in their gerrymandering schemes. The Dems have a chance to retake the House this year, unthinkable a couple of years ago. And I'll bet that Minnesota will keep at least one of those Senators in the Dem column, too..
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