Woodlawn should become a secondary CBD

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Actualy, the el (which was erected for the Columbian Exposition) was torn down from Cottage Grove to Stony because 63rd street had become blighted. It is better now than it was then.

You can argue that the blight didn't really get better because it was torn down simply because Hyde Park and the University of Chicago continued to slowly grow.

From when it was torn down, there continued to be population loss in Woodlawn and there are still quite a few empty lots as well as parking lots surrounding where the el could go.

El trains also don't have to be as bulky and ominous as they had been in the past and they certainly wouldn't feel so ominous with increased density of people and shops. I think having this connection between the Metra Electric and the Green Line can go a long way in driving development at that interchange and to make it more appealing to developers and companies. It'd certainly help drive a bit of traffic for people off the Green Line to visit or work at the coming library and museum as well as the University of Chicago which also has a presence in Woodlawn.

I'd go further and demolish the Green Line's Ashland branch between Garfield and Halstead. Instead, this should be a shuttle service (probably labeled as a new line entirely) that goes due east after the Halstead stop over the Dan Ryan with a transfer stop at 63rd to the Red Line then runs on the 63rd Street branch of the Green Line to the new terminus with the Metra Electric stop. The Red Line's time to the Loop is faster and goes beyond the Loop. The 63rd Street Branch of the Green Line then becomes the sole line where the Green Line operates and greatly ups its frequency and usefulness.

With enough development in Woodlawn for it to really be a secondary business district, then the shuttle service down the former Ashland branch can be extended to Midway (possibly as a connecting extension of the Orange Line) making it even more valuable and would give a large swath of the South Side access to rapid transit.

[OKParker]

Originally Posted by Manigault

I have been looking around in Woodlawn recently (unlike some of the other pundits) and what I found was surprising. Although most white people in Woodlawn live between Cottage and Dorchester and 61st and 63rd streets, there is a significant number of white people in the new construction around 67th and Dorchester. East of Cottage most of the homes go for $150 to $200k. I saw a nice renovated townhouse in the 6700 block of South University but they wanted $500k for it! Those are Hyde Park prices.

Which is where Woodlawn could fit in. It could serve as a set of cheaper residences than Hyde Park -Kenwood; like Bronzeville and Oakland are currently (both with significant white presence). Woodlawn is currently about 12% white and I can't see any rail returning to 63rd street since they worked so hard to eliminate it. However, it could be a nice residential area with an easy commute to downtown or the UofC complexes.

I haven’t seen many white people around 67th. When I do, I always yell it out to my gf. Not common

[chet everett]

There is so much "wrong headedness" in the thread I don't know where to start other than to say I have seen LOTS of people try to have a "build it and they will come" attitude when it comes to development when the reality is that the long held advise of real estate, "location, location, location" is now rapidly becoming "microlocation, microlocation, microlocation". That means that while once people MIGHT accept a less than perfect specific lot in otherwise desirable neighborhood I am increasingly seeing MASSIVE price differences for being not just "on the wrong side of the tracks" but "at the wrong end of the block", the reason is simple -- people know that while Illinois won't ever really "turn out the lights" entirely the risk/reward ratio will drive down the pool of people who stay. The "more perfect" homes in even the nicest towns are the only ones that have any chance of retaining equity while the less than perfect will sit vacant...



In this context it is lunacy to thing that there is any way to jump start development in areas that literally are trashed. Couple that with the fact that the sort of low wage retail employers are increasingly finding the hostile environment of Cook County Democrats frustrate their efforts to keep red ink off their books The Cook County Board legacy: Killing Cook County jobs - Chicago Tribune and it is all but impossible to see things turning around.


To be sure there have been all kinds of people that for whatever reason try to buy a new or renovated condo in parts of Chicago that have nothing going but inevitably that leads not to a happy long term homeowner, but somebody who dejectedly sells at a loss after the foolishness of their optimism is crushed by repeated break-ins, car thefts, or worse...


The bigger issues of Illinois, with its worsening crisis and even more desperate schemes to dig a deeper whole -- Illinois pension hole deepens | Editorials | daily-journal.com quite literally mean that only people detached from reality are not considering joining the exodus -- Illinois exodus: Flight of the expats - Chicago Tribune

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by chet everett

There is so much "wrong headedness" in the thread I don't know where to start

That I believe. That is, that you don't know where to start.

Originally Posted by chet everett

In this context it is lunacy to thing that there is any way to jump start development in areas that literally are trashed.

And that's where I believe your illogic lies. I don't know if the neighborhood was ever quite trashed. Folks lived there then and now. It happens that now folks who are relatively higher earners seem to be building new construction and rehabbing properties in the area.

Crime is crime. The rate of crime is different than before (less!) and less than other areas. What is important is that to the residents (and possible buyers) the crime rate is acceptable. Otherwise, the are would be abandoned. Many people fail to credit the ease of commute to downtown and the opportunity for some folks to remain near friends and institutions as factors in the redevelopment of Woodlawn.

Originally Posted by chet everett

To be sure there have been all kinds of people that for whatever reason try to buy a new or renovated condo in parts of Chicago that have nothing going but inevitably that leads not to a happy long term homeowner, but somebody who dejectedly sells at a loss after the foolishness of their optimism is crushed by repeated break-ins, car thefts, or worse...

Well, that's a doom prediction not shared by the rehabbers or the banks that are shelling out large bucks to finance what is going on. For myself, I'm going to be more positive. I think the dejected sales came more with the foreclosure crisis of high mortgages and lost jobs than anything else. Certainly not people slouching away dejectedly.

I have seen areas and cities where the population escaped almost as a whole, like in the South Bronx. What I have not seen a lot of is where new construction and rehabbed buildings were abandoned as a good but ultimately unsuccessful stab at keeping a neighborhood alive.