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goofy328, with all due respect, to say, "The entire Midwest is racist." is ALSO a prejudicial statement since it implies it is applicable to all residents without even knowing them... Racism is a learned behavior. I can assure you I do not tolerate racism, I do not teach it to my children nor in any martial arts classes I teach. I hope your experiences in Norfolk (if that is properly updated) are much more pleasant than other experiences you have had... I wish all out there peace!- Master Jay in Milwaukee
I am in Norfolk right now. Virgina is similar to the Midwest in some ways different in others.
goofy328, I hope all is well in Norfolk, Virginia. I'm not the biggest of travelers. I spent one week in South Carolina a good 10-15 years ago, for a training on working with adults with mental health illness. That is my only experience on the east coast! I'm born and raised Milwaukee, Wisconsin which has held the title as one of the top hyper-segregated cities. I am a frequent Chicago traveler, and parts of Chicago to me seems more hyper-segregated than Milwaukee, in the sense that I am taken aback how train tracks, for example, can literally separate one predominate-racial area from another. I reflect on how the train tracks near a section of 18th Street can separate a "Black neighborhood" from a "Mexican neighborhood."... That said, I will always consider Chicago my second home. I have never felt like an outsider in any of my travels, and nothing would keep me from returning! Sincerely, Master Jay in Milwaukee
goofy328, I hope all is well in Norfolk, Virginia. I'm not the biggest of travelers. I spent one week in South Carolina a good 10-15 years ago, for a training on working with adults with mental health illness. That is my only experience on the east coast! I'm born and raised Milwaukee, Wisconsin which has held the title as one of the top hyper-segregated cities. I am a frequent Chicago traveler, and parts of Chicago to me seems more hyper-segregated than Milwaukee, in the sense that I am taken aback how train tracks, for example, can literally separate one predominate-racial area from another. I reflect on how the train tracks near a section of 18th Street can separate a "Black neighborhood" from a "Mexican neighborhood."... That said, I will always consider Chicago my second home. I have never felt like an outsider in any of my travels, and nothing would keep me from returning! Sincerely, Master Jay in Milwaukee
I just don't like the characterization, this city is racist or that city is racist. People don't know the history of the area. The Midwest is the South, just removed by degrees of separation.
People in the Midwest, and to a degree, the Northwest, are often Southerners removed several generations. Blacks are not the only people that migrated to the North in the early twentieth century. Detroit in particular a lot of the issues were former Southerners had moved up there and were in place. Land owners and slave owners stayed in the South but workers without property or assets moved to other parts of the country. Just like Blacks that stayed in the South were protecting assets passed down to them. Other Blacks had nothing to hold onto so it was easier for them to leave.
So if your boss is giving you a hard way to go or you're experiencing institutional racism or other prejudice there may be a deeper reason for that. I'm not saying that those that were always Northerners going back to the early days aren't racist. But those aren't necessarily who a Black person will have the most contact with. Blacks and Whites up North have issues, and often they're both Southerners removed but just don't realize it because they don't know their family history.
Midwest is one of those weird places where you think you're a Northerner but you're just a Southerner removed two, three, six or more generations. This is what Virginia taught me. I wasn't looking for that type of education. In school they just taught us how bad the South was, and Reconstruction, and Jim Crow. But some of the same architects of those systems were in the North doing the same thing.
So before saying Detroit is racist, Chicago is racist, Cincinnati is racist, yada yada yada maybe your ancestors fled one system of oppression and arrived in another one.
I just don't like the characterization, this city is racist or that city is racist. People don't know the history of the area. The Midwest is the South, just removed by degrees of separation.
People in the Midwest, and to a degree, the Northwest, are often Southerners removed several generations. Blacks are not the only people that migrated to the North in the early twentieth century. Detroit in particular a lot of the issues were former Southerners had moved up there and were in place. Land owners and slave owners stayed in the South but workers without property or assets moved to other parts of the country. Just like Blacks that stayed in the South were protecting assets passed down to them. Other Blacks had nothing to hold onto so it was easier for them to leave.
So if your boss is giving you a hard way to go or you're experiencing institutional racism or other prejudice there may be a deeper reason for that. I'm not saying that those that were always Northerners going back to the early days aren't racist. But those aren't necessarily who a Black person will have the most contact with. Blacks and Whites up North have issues, and often they're both Southerners removed but just don't realize it because they don't know their family history.
Midwest is one of those weird places where you think you're a Northerner but you're just a Southerner removed two, three, six or more generations. This is what Virginia taught me. I wasn't looking for that type of education. In school they just taught us how bad the South was, and Reconstruction, and Jim Crow. But some of the same architects of those systems were in the North doing the same thing.
So before saying Detroit is racist, Chicago is racist, Cincinnati is racist, yada yada yada maybe your ancestors fled one system of oppression and arrived in another one.
I would guess that more people in the Chicago area are descendants of Polish, Irish, Italian and Greek immigrants that came to America in the late 1800s or early 1900s. My understanding is that there were some Southerners that migrated and settled on Chicago’s north side. Maybe some of the Dutch and German people had ancestors here longer than the Italians, Poles, etc., but from personal experience growing up on the south side of Chicago, most people I know with that ancestry had ancestors in the Chicago area prior to the civil war.
On a somewhat related topic, I believe most original settlers from the Pacific Borthwest came from the Southern if that’s what you were thinking of.
I would guess that more people in the Chicago area are descendants of Polish, Irish, Italian and Greek immigrants that came to America in the late 1800s or early 1900s. My understanding is that there were some Southerners that migrated and settled on Chicago’s north side. Maybe some of the Dutch and German people had ancestors here longer than the Italians, Poles, etc., but from personal experience growing up on the south side of Chicago, most people I know with that ancestry had ancestors in the Chicago area prior to the civil war.
On a somewhat related topic, I believe most original settlers from the Pacific Borthwest came from the Southern if that’s what you were thinking of.
I've heard of Oregon being promoted as some type of White Utopia where White Southerners could reinvent themselves. There is a reason Portland is the way that it is.
But you're right Chicago and some of the larger cities are composed of people that moved from Europe and the South for any number of reasons. People bring their sentiments with them. One may not have had the liberty to practice oppression the same way they did in the South but institutions did exist.
There's an interesting article over at City Lab that states that Southern Blacks moved up North and outperformed the Blacks that were already there but Southern Whites that moved up North not so much. Sounds about right as Northern Whites already had their societies established, whereas Northern Blacks weren't as accomplished as the Southern Blacks that could compete up North. Northern Whites weren't conceding that power structure to anyone. A lot of Southern Blacks were better off staying in the South as they didn't have the education to compete up North and just ended up in factories and tenements. Southern Whites, more likely, ended up in management positions over the same Southern Blacks they were getting away from by moving up North but paled in comparison to the Whites that were already up North.
The research is difficult to do as it is an unpopular topic and articles are extremely difficult to find. It doesn't flatter the North.
I don't have any real issues with the North. I actually prefer a lot of the infrastructure that is in place. South is suburban to me. But the South seems to have more work at this time, whereas the North is far more competitive intellectually and educationally than it has ever been. No sense even wasting your time if you're uneducated. It was moving in that direction growing up but it wasn't quite there yet. I'm going to finish what I started and eventually make my way back up there, or maybe check out California or Florida. There are things here, sentiments, I'm not totally sold on. Maybe it's different in Northern Virgina I don't know.
After much research, we also discovered that Naperville is a highly suspected sundown town. After looking more into the town of naperville, it is highly probable that the town was sundown at a time. According to Loewen, the census for Naperville counted no african americans living in the town all the way up to 1970 while there were only 43 reported (Loewen). We also looked deeper into the Naperville fire of 1922 which burnt down the Saint Peter and Paul Catholic Church. It is highly speculated that the fire was started by an arsonist that was most likely extremely racist. The fire marshall did investigating but no one could find the cause of the fire.
Goshen, Indiana has pledged to acknowledge and transcend its past as a sundown town.
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On March 17, 2015, the mayor and city council of Goshen, Indiana, passed a resolution to acknowledge and transcend its past as a sundown town. Between 1890 and 1940, more than 200 towns and counties in Indiana became sundown towns -- places that were "all-white" on purpose. Goshen was one of these towns. To be sure, it stopped enforcing its ban both formally and informally some years ago, but this resolution clearly moves Goshen beyond its sundown past. I recommend it as a model for other former (or persisting) sundown towns in Indiana and across the United States.
LaCrosse, Wisconsin has done likewise.
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On December 8, 2016, the mayor and former mayor of La Crosse, Wisconsin, signed passed a resolution to acknowledge and transcend its past as a sundown town. Earlier, on October 27, 2016, La Crosse's Human Relations Council met before a large audience at City Hall and heard James Loewen speak on sundown towns, watched a video by Jennifer DeRocher, a graduate of U. WI LAX, on La Crosse as a sundown town, and heard the mayor give an apology for that history. Between 1890 and 1940, more than 150 towns and counties in Wisconsin became sundown towns -- places that were "all-white" on purpose. La Crosse was one of these towns. To be sure, it stopped enforcing its ban both formally and informally some years ago, but this resolution clearly moves La Crosse beyond its sundown past. I recommend it as a model for other former (or persisting) sundown towns in Wisconsin and across the United States.
Effingham, IL and over 190 other Illinois towns were sundown towns.
From James Loewen's book
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Method of Exclusion
Threat of Violence;Police or Other Offical Action;Reputation
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There is a bus and train station in Effingham that were the only places in town that African Americans were allowed to go when travelling through. They were not allowed to leave the station and the police monitored constantly to ensure it. Very strong reputation of being unfriendly to Blacks.
Ihavearrived, I just red your original post. Now I see this. I assure you the moderators will remove your statement on this particular post. Please reflect on your thoughts and words. Hopefully you will see where your comments need SELF moderating . Sincerely, Master Jay in Milwaukee
I would guess that more people in the Chicago area are descendants of Polish, Irish, Italian and Greek immigrants that came to America in the late 1800s or early 1900s. My understanding is that there were some Southerners that migrated and settled on Chicago’s north side. Maybe some of the Dutch and German people had ancestors here longer than the Italians, Poles, etc., but from personal experience growing up on the south side of Chicago, most people I know with that ancestry had ancestors in the Chicago area prior to the civil war.
On a somewhat related topic, I believe most original settlers from the Pacific Borthwest came from the Southern if that’s what you were thinking of.
I believe he was referring to the black population in Chicago. The white population is heavily European decent. Definitely not Southern white decent.
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