Do they want to secede...or kick out Chicago? (Madison: worth, road)

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by brodie734

tbh this is not that weird as only a few states have multiple major cities and many states have none.

I would imagine Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Denver, Phoenix, Las Vegas and Seattle fit such a pattern.

[KoNgFooCj]

Originally Posted by edsg25

I can't think of any other state that is viewed in terms of the city/metro area dominating the rest (upstate, downstate) of the state like New York and Illinois.

Boston isn't viewed as dominating Massachusetts (which it does) but as dominating New England. But area wise, New England is incredibly small. While that city/rest of the state thing may exist in Baltimore, Atlanta, New Orleans, Denver, etc....its not quite center stage as it is in IL and NY.

why might Chicago/Illinois be the best example? Sure it is dwarfed by NYC, but Buffalo is a major city and there is nothing like it in Illinois. So there is that. New York would have some common issues that Buffalo has as well. Chicago has far fewer with any city: Rockford, Peoria, Quad Cities, etc.

NYS is the Catskills and the Hudson Valley, Niagara Falls and Cornell ivy. Of course upstate is dominated by New York, but it still makes a very noticeable place.

When you leave the Chicago area, you are stuck in Illinois. I'm not trying to put down my state and there are things I definitely like about downstate (one being Galena which manages due to the 800 lb. Chicagoland in the room to be "downstate IL" while across the street from Wisconsin.

Most of Illinois is endless fields of corn. Without Chicago, Illinois would be Iowa without the urban pulse of Des Moines. Downstate is not only dominated by Chicago and Chicagoland, downstate IL doesn't offer up much in the first place. The contrast between the two would make for a very strong desire to separate.

The way I see it, I see Wisconsin having advantages over Illinois: it gets its capital city in Madison, not in Springfield. It gets its flagship university in Madison, not Champaign/Urbana. It gets its major city in Milwaukee, a place more in common with Chicagoland than any place in Illinois.

That Lake Michigan that we love so much is what put us in the mess we're in. If it weren't for the new state of Illinois wanting Great Lakes access, requiring what would have been Chicago, WI, becoming Chicago, IL, which it was designed to be.

You're right. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. There's plenty of states with a single city that steals most of the population.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj

You're right. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that. There's plenty of states with a single city that steals most of the population.

On the other hand, if you were to ask people across the nation which states do you think of where one city dominates the state, overwhelmingly they would say New York and Illinois.

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by damba

You hit the nail on the head.

Most of downstate would be gutted from lack of tax revenue. Road repairs and social services cut to the bone. School funding would only be possible with RE tax increases. Bad move all around.

No, not really just as long as you put I-80 as the border they'd be fine.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by IAmEverywhere

There are major differences between the inner-ring and outer-ring suburbs of Chicago.

Culturally, the inner-ring suburbs are not that different from the city. However, the outer-ring suburbs are fundamentally different. In my opinion, their culture is more similar to other parts of the Midwest than to the city. Politically, the outer-ring suburbs may lean Democratic nowadays, but they are far from being the political monoculture which defines the city and inner-ring suburbs.

Economically, the outer-ring suburbs have their own major economic centers. They are less reliant on downtown Chicago for jobs than the inner-ring suburbs.

Interestingly, the plan being suggested here takes these differences into account. Most of the inner-ring suburbs are in Cook County, which would remain with the City of Chicago under this plan. Most of the outer-ring suburbs are in collar counties, which would be grouped with downstate Illinois under this plan.

Also, Aurora alone is within 5% of the population of Des Moines. So under this plan, the new state would in fact have a city in the same league as Des Moines.

No argument on your comparison between the inner and outer suburbs. The culture of outer suburbia is different but on practicality and the way an urban region interacts with itself, it would be ill (no punted) advised to split off outer suburbs from Cook County.

Look at it this way: if we in the US were allowed to redraw the map and one of the states was to be called "Chicago", it would make sense for said state to include two Lake counties and a Kenosha County as well.

Since its inception, Chicago has been able to maintain two separate cultures, North Side and South Side, within its city limits.

[brodie734]

Originally Posted by edsg25

I would imagine Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Denver, Phoenix, Las Vegas and Seattle fit such a pattern.

Maryland is essentially nothing but suburbs of DC and Baltimore with a few rural-ish (for the Northeast anyway) fringes.

The other ones though are absolutely true. Add in Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, etc.

[Maintainschaos]

It's never going to happen, but if it did, Illinois would be just another Iowa with a slightly higher population and GDP. And, well, Iowa seems to be doing just fine...

[Republic of Michigan]

Originally Posted by brodie734

Maryland is essentially nothing but suburbs of DC and Baltimore with a few rural-ish (for the Northeast anyway) fringes.

The other ones though are absolutely true. Add in Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, etc.

I disagree with placing Michigan on the list. While half of Michigan's population lives in the Detroit area, Michigan has 2 major metropolitan areas (Detroit and Grand Rapids)

Grand Rapids' CSA alone is 1.4 million people which is a sizable area. Also, in Michigan there is a consciousness of Detroit v. Grand Rapids in terms of political power sharing and rivalry.

Going further, if you add in Kalamazoo, the area is approximately 2 million people.

Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, and Oregon do not have 2 major metropolitan areas like Michigan.

[coldwine]

To be fair, I have never considered myself a citizen of a state. I'm from Chicago.

I've never even been to Illinois.

We have the opera; they have Peoria. Win win.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by coldwine

To be fair, I have never considered myself a citizen of a state. I'm from Chicago.

I've never even been to Illinois.

We have the opera; they have Peoria. Win win.

Nothing controversial here..lol

I guess that if I lived in Chicago, I would probably head to WI ( Milwaukee, Madison) for road trips, or possibly Minneapolis one in a while. I doubt that I would spend much time in downstate IL, although it should be seen as least once..