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Old 08-03-2020, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
4,620 posts, read 3,185,167 times
Reputation: 3895

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Curly Q. Bobalink, thank you for your response.

And please understand that I was not implying that just because there ARE guns available, that THAT is the problem! Everything is about choice and responsibility.

But what I was trying to say is that the combination of lack of empathy, lack of control, lack of anger management skills, and society's reflection of how so many people live in an "instant gratification" life, that ALL this is part of why we I believe we see so many issues with gun violence.

And why is your head making a rattling noise?

 
Old 08-03-2020, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Aishalton, GY
1,454 posts, read 1,378,125 times
Reputation: 1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movingtonewplace View Post
how safe is Downtown Chicago and north of the city.
I would love to move there, but all I hear is bad stuff about Chicago
Daytime - great
 
Old 08-03-2020, 01:52 PM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,041,354 times
Reputation: 9288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Jay View Post
Curly Q. Bobalink, thank you for your response.

And please understand that I was not implying that just because there ARE guns available, that THAT is the problem! Everything is about choice and responsibility.

But what I was trying to say is that the combination of lack of empathy, lack of control, lack of anger management skills, and society's reflection of how so many people live in an "instant gratification" life, that ALL this is part of why we I believe we see so many issues with gun violence.

And why is your head making a rattling noise?
Too many ball-bearings, and too-few brains to cushion them. We agree far, far more than we disagree, keep on keepin' on with the Good Work.
 
Old 08-03-2020, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
4,620 posts, read 3,185,167 times
Reputation: 3895
Curly Q. Bobalink, thank you, Sir.

Stay safe, happy, and healthy!

EVERYBODY!!!
 
Old 08-03-2020, 06:11 PM
 
Location: SS Chicago
30 posts, read 23,864 times
Reputation: 98
Good evening Master Jay and all,
I do see some factors that differentiate those times of the 1960's and now. For instance, the population of the Chicago metro area in 1960 according to this site >
[ URL]=http://physics.bu.edu/~redner/projects/population/cities/chicago.html[/url] was 3,550,404 . Today it's around 8,865,000 so, say the population has doubled in 60 years.

I'm no genius but,I wonder if a population has doubled if the crime/murder statistics also doubles?
I won't get into race or wealth because it would probably fry this 65 year olds mind.
 
Old 08-03-2020, 06:56 PM
 
88 posts, read 78,590 times
Reputation: 301
Hey all...
Not to go off topic but it seems nearly everyone thinks 30 shootings in a weekend is a problem. The PR is a nightmare. It's perpetuating the belief that the city is lawless and people and businesses decide to stay away. And Chicago deserves better. So I'd like to know what's the SOLUTION to all of this? Or will we all be in front of our terminals a year from now, still shaking our heads at the ongoing, daily carnage? Anybody out there have any ideas? If we wait for the politicians to lead when they are feeding at the trough of special interests, nothing will happen, unless you have a Rudy Giuliani or a Michael Bloomberg waiting in the wings. (NYC was becoming a cesspool for anyone who remembers the '70's, '80's and early '90's)

I'm not about the naming, blaming and shaming. It's probably safe to say though, it's not the Swedish grandmothers, the Brownies or the AlterBoys that are acting out. So how do we find a way to get this to STOP?

There aren't enough jail cells to house all the perps. Or is the worst carried out by a few? Gangs, for instance? Do we have to spend money to make the problem go away? In training? Schooling? Or as someone suggested, give them $10,000 to leave the city limits and never return?

I guess I'm curious how other cities that were once in this situation managed to turn things around. Anyone know or have any ideas?

Last edited by ReadyForWhatsNext; 08-03-2020 at 06:59 PM.. Reason: typo
 
Old 08-03-2020, 08:10 PM
 
5,069 posts, read 2,154,482 times
Reputation: 5153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadyForWhatsNext View Post
Hey all...
Not to go off topic but it seems nearly everyone thinks 30 shootings in a weekend is a problem. The PR is a nightmare. It's perpetuating the belief that the city is lawless and people and businesses decide to stay away. And Chicago deserves better. So I'd like to know what's the SOLUTION to all of this? Or will we all be in front of our terminals a year from now, still shaking our heads at the ongoing, daily carnage? Anybody out there have any ideas? If we wait for the politicians to lead when they are feeding at the trough of special interests, nothing will happen, unless you have a Rudy Giuliani or a Michael Bloomberg waiting in the wings. (NYC was becoming a cesspool for anyone who remembers the '70's, '80's and early '90's)

I'm not about the naming, blaming and shaming. It's probably safe to say though, it's not the Swedish grandmothers, the Brownies or the AlterBoys that are acting out. So how do we find a way to get this to STOP?

There aren't enough jail cells to house all the perps. Or is the worst carried out by a few? Gangs, for instance? Do we have to spend money to make the problem go away? In training? Schooling? Or as someone suggested, give them $10,000 to leave the city limits and never return?

I guess I'm curious how other cities that were once in this situation managed to turn things around. Anyone know or have any ideas?
According to many New Yorkers I have talked with they said things changed when they got real leaders in city hall such as the ones you mentioned. So that is what it seems it would take. And sadly that will not happen in Chicago.
 
Old 08-03-2020, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,837 posts, read 6,850,340 times
Reputation: 10126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert9 View Post
According to many New Yorkers I have talked with they said things changed when they got real leaders in city hall such as the ones you mentioned. So that is what it seems it would take. And sadly that will not happen in Chicago.
I recently read that the last Republican mayor in Chicago was in 1931. So, good luck finding another Giuliani that can get elected here.

I really don't think there really is hope in finding someone to bring law and order to this city. The odds of an elected Democrat to change his spots and actually going against his party are not very good. If someone actually did make an effort, they had better build more jail facilities because for these weaponized gangsters, that's the only place to put them.
 
Old 08-04-2020, 01:29 AM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,041,354 times
Reputation: 9288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugal Audiophile View Post
In order to fix a problem you have to find out the cause, can't fix a problem if you don't know what's causing it. Although Chicago doesn't have the highest crime rate, it's crime rate is higher than most major cities. There is something unique about Chicago versus Boston, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, etc...

The best explanation of cause I've heard on here is segregation. Segregation by race and segregation by class. So the solution is integration but if you do this you'll get a lot of push back and it's political suicide. Ogden school in Gold Coast merged with Jenner in Cabrini Green and the parents went ape ****, many pulled their kids out. People wanted housing for people making 25k-75K in Jefferson Park and the residents had a heart attack. People don't want the solution. Status quo is better. Hell my mere suggestion will probably trigger some people.
No triggers here. The problem is, white kids make up what, maybe ten percent of CPS students, with maybe a third African American, and forty-some percent Latino? I don't think white kids are the problem here, and you aren't going to solve the problems of CPS by moving them around. Besides, Chicago spends what, maybe fifteen grand a year per kid on education? With many states spending half that much, I don't think that funding is your primary problem.

If I remember correctly, the city as a whole is made up of something like 1/3rd of each race, with Asians in a a distant fourth place. So it's a bit disingenuous to even talk about "minorities" anymore in Chicago. But if you want to drive more whites out of the city, start talking about busing their kids to Englewood. Same with mixing people of vastly different incomes, the people with money (of all races / ethnicities)will simply pack up and move to greener pastures if you start making the neighborhoods they live in more miserable (unsafe) than they are currently. Hey, maybe if we get rid of the police....
 
Old 08-04-2020, 04:26 AM
 
88 posts, read 78,590 times
Reputation: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugal Audiophile View Post
In order to fix a problem you have to find out the cause, can't fix a problem if you don't know what's causing it. Although Chicago doesn't have the highest crime rate, it's crime rate is higher than most major cities. There is something unique about Chicago versus Boston, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, etc...

The best explanation of cause I've heard on here is segregation. Segregation by race and segregation by class. So the solution is integration but if you do this you'll get a lot of push back and it's political suicide. Ogden school in Gold Coast merged with Jenner in Cabrini Green and the parents went ape ****, many pulled their kids out. People wanted housing for people making 25k-75K in Jefferson Park and the residents had a heart attack. People don't want the solution. Status quo is better. Hell my mere suggestion will probably trigger some people.
After reading your post, I looked up the best high schools and prep schools in Chicago. You know, the ones that cost $50,000 + per year to send your kid to the the 10th grade, etc. I'm taking a leap here but I don't think it's these kids who stalk out an inner city, elderly woman whom they rape and beat to death (as here in NYC last month and may she RIP) between two parked cars just a block from her home.

It's poverty. It's poverty of finances and of the soul. I bring this up because I think you touched upon the problem and the solution. It's class. Class! In America, where we weren't supposed to be divided among class. They said we're all EQUAL!!!??? Turns out now we're more divided by class than they are in many countries in Europe from which our ancestors fled.

Another reason I think it's class (as opposed to race alone) is when you look in the wealthy neighborhoods of Asians, Blacks, Latinos and Whites, you don't find people stooping to such levels of depravity. They're busy living the American Dream. And yes some of them, some of US, will commit white collar crimes as opposed to violent acts.

If we could raise up everyone to a life of prosperity, we'd find the peace we seek. I'm thinking of three places I've been to prove the point: Dubai, Singapore and Monaco. I can already see the jokes coming about caning people for spitting on the sidewalk and the moral rules in the UAE

This is too long, too wordy (apologies!) But getting people jobs (and responsibilities) is the first step. INCENTIVES of some sort could help make this happen and that gets political. If we really want to find a SOLUTION, there's likely going to be a cost. In my humble opinion. In the end, I think we are divided by class, income and financial worth. It does seem like a chicken and egg, intractable dilemma.
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