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Old 11-05-2020, 12:20 PM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,039,729 times
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via chicago: Great map, do you have a link for it? I want to be able to stare at each version (counties versus population centers) for longer than it allows one to do before changing over. One outlier I see is Phoenix, a large, Republican population center that dominates Arizona. So I have to ask, if this map is accurate, how does one explain the 2020 Presidential results, where Arizona has (purportedly) turned Blue?
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Old 11-05-2020, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,406,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruko View Post
Illinois is definitely a 'blue state' and has trended Democratic in a rather dramatic fashion since the 1990s. However, in the last few election cycles, Democrats have been running up smaller margins here than they did during the Obama era. For several years, Illinois was running up Democratic margins similar to or greater than California and Massachusetts. The last three election cycles have shown us something different.
Yes, though we're now essentially VT with vacant lots and homicides in place of quaint bed-and-breakfasty charm and hand churned ice cream, there were some surprising results on Tuesday. Justice Kilbride got bumped off due to the Republicans' success in tying him to Madigan, the Unfair Tax Amendment failed, Lauren Underwood looks like she lost to a rich businessman Republican (who quite frankly wasn't a very good candidate), and the Machine's blatant attempt to get rid of Judge Toomin for messing with one of their own failed.

Though Kim Fixx won another term (), O'Brien got more votes than any Republican had a right to in Cook County. And Jeanie Ives, the transgender-phobic nut, came closer to beating Sean Casten than I'd have thought.

Overall, it wasn't a really good night for the Democrats in IL, and perhaps offers a glimmer of hope for the future. The Machine is still around, but it looks like it might now be a 4-cylinder engine.
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Old 11-05-2020, 06:11 PM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,356,479 times
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Yes or most of the state legislators would have been rightfully tossed out on their @sses long ago for the atrocious way they have run this state. Heck in a lot of states they would be chased out with pitchforks.
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Old 11-05-2020, 06:22 PM
 
148 posts, read 120,445 times
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Yet that land feeds the people who vote.
Without food you die of starvation.
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Old 11-05-2020, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,752 posts, read 2,375,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glass_of_merlot View Post
No.
Chicago is.
You could say the same exact thing about New York and California. On a map of the whole state, the majority is red. But as others have said, "land doesn't vote, people do".
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Old 11-05-2020, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
I would say yes. It's become kind of a Rust Belt Vermont. Reliably blue.
I wouldn't say that. Those smaller New England/far northeast states have far more blue than red, percentage and otherwise. Rural Illinois is drastically more conservative than rural MA/NH/VT, and there's far, far more of it.

Vermont went 66% Biden, 30% Trump.
IL went 55% Biden, 42% Trump (although Cook County is still being counted)
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Old 11-05-2020, 09:54 PM
 
5,528 posts, read 3,210,845 times
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Illinois is more pragmatic than ideological. That I think is what the OP is getting at. Chicago being a diverse city with many economically marginal people will always bias the state to the left, but Illinois is not a place like Massachusetts or the Bay Area where being on the left is part of a weltanschauung.

Illinois has trended blue over the past 30 years because the borrow and spend behavior (presided over by both parties) has made it seem as if Illinois can have a high service economy with low taxes. Nothing could be further from the truth, but as long as the punch bowl is filled people will drink.

That is a downside of pragmatism. You can "do what makes sense" in the short term and end up in a dead end. In numerical terms, pragmatism is a "greedy optimization" strategy which can get stuck in a local minimum.

More ideological people try to predict things with thought frameworks. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. But I can't help but think that Illinois would not be in the financial predicament it's in if Illinois voters were more apt to consider the long term. Instead people here tend to be more sheepish, going along to get along and taking it easier than people who have some vision for how the world should work.

This manifests itself with inchoate politics, again biased to the left. Even a place like New York City, which is similar, has a LaGuardia type figure now and then. Chicago never has people like that because there aren't enough voters who care.
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Old 11-06-2020, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Illinois
3,205 posts, read 3,488,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Illinois is more pragmatic than ideological. That I think is what the OP is getting at. Chicago being a diverse city with many economically marginal people will always bias the state to the left, but Illinois is not a place like Massachusetts or the Bay Area where being on the left is part of a weltanschauung.

Illinois has trended blue over the past 30 years because the borrow and spend behavior (presided over by both parties) has made it seem as if Illinois can have a high service economy with low taxes. Nothing could be further from the truth, but as long as the punch bowl is filled people will drink.

That is a downside of pragmatism. You can "do what makes sense" in the short term and end up in a dead end. In numerical terms, pragmatism is a "greedy optimization" strategy which can get stuck in a local minimum.

More ideological people try to predict things with thought frameworks. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. But I can't help but think that Illinois would not be in the financial predicament it's in if Illinois voters were more apt to consider the long term. Instead people here tend to be more sheepish, going along to get along and taking it easier than people who have some vision for how the world should work.

This manifests itself with inchoate politics, again biased to the left. Even a place like New York City, which is similar, has a LaGuardia type figure now and then. Chicago never has people like that because there aren't enough voters who care.
Where are you getting this "low taxes" thing from? Illinois does not and has not had low taxes in recent memory. Taxes have been on a near-continuous increase since the 1930s, and revenues to the state in 2018 and 2019 were higher than ever despite a flatline population.
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Old 11-06-2020, 02:04 PM
 
5,528 posts, read 3,210,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruko View Post
Where are you getting this "low taxes" thing from? Illinois does not and has not had low taxes in recent memory. Taxes have been on a near-continuous increase since the 1930s, and revenues to the state in 2018 and 2019 were higher than ever despite a flatline population.
Low taxes relative to services offered, I should clarify. Hence the persistent budget deficits. The main factor in lower than peer state taxes is the flat state income tax.
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Old 11-06-2020, 03:37 PM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,039,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Low taxes relative to services offered, I should clarify. Hence the persistent budget deficits. The main factor in lower than peer state taxes is the flat state income tax.
Services offered to whom? The only service I get from the state, is to drive on the roads and bridges, which are congested and falling apart. Oh, yeah, and often tolled, and we pay near the highest fuel taxes in the nation (at least in Cook County), which is supposed to pay for all the roads and bridges.

I did go to school when I was a kid, but I assume that was paid for by the taxes my parents paid at the time. So where do my taxes currently go? Red Light Cameras? I'm just not seeing it. Unless, of course, it's to pay above-average pensions to all our dedicated public worker unions, or to pay for the prison time for so many of our former governors (hopefully, the current one is smart enough to stay out of the can, I'm betting that guy can eat a lot of caviar and I'd hate to pay for that as well).

Bottom line, where do all the money go, Jim?
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