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Old 12-10-2020, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
2,532 posts, read 972,912 times
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reneeh63 I wonder how much of it is psychological? What is sometimes referred to as " Napoleon syndrome".
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Old 12-10-2020, 05:45 PM
 
Location: sumter
11,246 posts, read 6,837,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
How simplistic that bigger (taller) is always better. I want innovative DESIGN not just tall spires. And I want it to not look like a sore thumb sticking out above everything else with no regard for anything around it. Chicago has many styles and continues to represent itself well.
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Old 12-10-2020, 05:47 PM
 
884 posts, read 490,779 times
Reputation: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWright View Post
Chicago needs a renewed civic pride, officials and planners that want to restore our global relevance and developers that are motivated to build statement buildings in any height range. The Obama Library is a pathetic case of a broken system. Years of legal challenges, community housing/employment demands, protests etc, all over a few acres of a park being used for an institution that will bring jobs, educational outlets, toursim, investors and revitalization in an area that desparately needs it. The loss of the Lucas Museum over public land use lawsuits is another sad casualty of the climate in Chicago.
I agree with point one. I disagree with point two. It's so easy to build Lucas and Obama in the many vacant parcels or depressed land areas. Hell both coulda put theirs along the river if they wanted waterfront. But the lakefront and parks are there for the people and I applaud friends of the park and protect our parks for continuing to fight. This is for another thread but a couple of points about parks:

1. Lakefront and parks ADD value to the neighborhood and city (via tourism). Look at Nema...it's awesome because it has both the park AND lake to overlook.
2. Imagine a Chicago full of Lake Point Towers. It would suck. I wish they would tear that building down.
3. We've been talking about West Loop boom in another thread. You know why I will never live there? No lake and no parks.

So please protect the parks and open spaces we have. Plenty of other places to build or simply build it adjacent to the protected land.
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Old 12-10-2020, 06:17 PM
 
330 posts, read 131,716 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
How simplistic that bigger (taller) is always better. I want innovative DESIGN not just tall spires. And I want it to not look like a sore thumb sticking out above everything else with no regard for anything around it. Chicago has many styles and continues to represent itself well.
Who said bigger (taller) is always better? You obviously never read a word of what I said or failed to comprehend my posts in context. My argument is all about design. Height whether you like it or not is an element of design. Same for form and materials which I've spoken extensively on.

What (taller) is, is progress. This is why Manhattan and London look so much different than they did 10 years ago. If height was unimportant you could throw Chicago as we know it away. Those quests to reach new heights is what put Chicago on the map and accounts for most of our global brand.

Chicago invented the "skyscraper"....built the world's tallest in 1892, then restricted it for 70 years, then went on to build the world's tallest again for 30 years, then had the first 2,000 foot mega-tall proposal ever fall through due to the economy, then had the first 2,000 foot mega-tall in the world under construction again fall through due to the economy. This creates a certain history with skyscrapers that is unique to Chicago. With that history comes expectations.

Those expectations shouldn't be satisfied by nearly identical minimalist towers all in the 700'-800' height range which utilizie blue-glass, box-forms and metal accents. Throw in parking podiums with blank walls and louvers greeting the streets and you're speaking Chicago's language.

Do yourself a favor and read before commenting.
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Old 12-11-2020, 10:37 AM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,070 posts, read 27,733,219 times
Reputation: 10536
The exterior glass changes color when I turn the CPL. Looks pretty cool.

Untitled by James Fremont - Four Star Images, on Flickr
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Old 12-11-2020, 11:01 AM
 
330 posts, read 131,716 times
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Vista from this angle and lighting is absolutely captivating. With Vista and Aqua Jeanne Gang is forming a remarkable legacy on the skyline. Her visionary work is inspiring. Her smaller scale buildings in Hyde Park are amazing as well. Hopefully she's offered the opportunity for more signature work in the downtown like this.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eo9-mZkW...pg&name=medium
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Old 12-11-2020, 11:41 AM
 
330 posts, read 131,716 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtcbnd03 View Post
I agree with point one. I disagree with point two. It's so easy to build Lucas and Obama in the many vacant parcels or depressed land areas. Hell both coulda put theirs along the river if they wanted waterfront. But the lakefront and parks are there for the people and I applaud friends of the park and protect our parks for continuing to fight. This is for another thread but a couple of points about parks:

1. Lakefront and parks ADD value to the neighborhood and city (via tourism). Look at Nema...it's awesome because it has both the park AND lake to overlook.
2. Imagine a Chicago full of Lake Point Towers. It would suck. I wish they would tear that building down.
3. We've been talking about West Loop boom in another thread. You know why I will never live there? No lake and no parks.

So please protect the parks and open spaces we have. Plenty of other places to build or simply build it adjacent to the protected land.
I'm not anti-park at all but It makes sense to me to be willing to trade a few acres of Jackson Park for what will amount to having essentially a national monument. The development also enhances the landscaping and engangement of its surroundings. Weighing the educational outlets that will come with, economic stimulation, jobs, tourists and revitalization of Woodlawn which are all crucial to the south side's health its proximity to UChicago and the Museum of Science & Indusrty makes it an excellent location worth the sacrifice for that sort of catalyst to spark a rebirth.

McCormick Place East is a monstrosity that is too expensive to demo or redevelop so it will sit for decades I'm sure. The Lucas Museum on the other hand would have replaced a giant surface lot that isn't providing any revenue to the city or enhancing our reputation. An institutaion of that caliber would have provided best and highest uses for a parking lot and that should be the end goal.

I'm all for public space as it does indeed enhance quality of life but some investments are worth the trade off for me.
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:28 PM
 
1,059 posts, read 287,417 times
Reputation: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
The exterior glass changes color when I turn the CPL. Looks pretty cool.

Untitled by James Fremont - Four Star Images, on Flickr
Exactly, and the OP basically was acknowledging this. Then others started downplaying it and Chicago in general new buildings and even past decades. So we have this debate of sorts....

Is Chicago really sub-par especially vs other North American cities. We know even European cities now have parts with skyscrapers and of course .... cities springing up in Asia. Dubai with some seemingly WITH NO PRICE-POINT LIMITS and Glory towers still coming albeit delays.

I feel Chicago is still darn lucky it can even get SuperTalls and near that height. Even those downplaying why the West Loop has been getting still new high-rises to skyscrapers announced during this Pandemic even. They DOWNPLAY it as if they just do not know what to do with money.... Chicago is really unworthy etc.

The downplaying of the replacement downsized towers for the former Chicago Spire sight by Terracotta accents or claims of removed complete which I still found links that said it was not. Really changes little in the look it seems anyway. They are just as impressive.

When someone decries a downsize as some strictly Chicago thing and lessens Chicago's stature in Architecture if its is 900'+ vs 1100"+? They ARE PROMOTING SIZE MATTERS. Most Architecture buffs dislike the Podium concept with parking anyway. So to remove it was not detrimental to them and therefore the towers were shrunk.

Chicago maintains its mix of old and new well. Part of what gives it a edge and later 20th century had few fully booming periods with all the same styles one after another. You see that even more in Toronto with is fast building and booming core with highrises and skyscrapers and soooooo many the same color green-glass exteriors. Some new and proposed should hielp.

I was not crazy about the look of the planned Tribune east Tower at over 1400' if it does not get downsized and RESPECTFULLY being left a few feet less then Sears. Still it will be impressive. We still do not know if or when it will even get built or remain that tall. I expect another years delay. and fear the Spire sight too will have a delay. So many times this happens or kills might projects.

Remember when the Old Post Office sight was to get a couple Supertalls? Maybe some think THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER Then the current redo of the Old Post Office itself??? Cause Chicago would have had more Supertalls under its belt for a higher echelon title? I still think saving the Old Post Office was the better plan that is what did happen over a decade later from what was originally proposed by the British developer.

Now the 78 is ongoing over decades. Delays for some probably as ALL depends on the Market demand.Not about Glory Towers in anyway. Slower growth actually means BETTER CHANCE AT MOVE VARIED ARCHITECTURE ALSO over Fast building developments. Clearly we say this over the 30+yrs it has taken to get Lake Shore East near completion of all its available lots..... from Black boxes to currently the St Regis (formally Vista). Pretty diverse especially from the Millennium/Grant Park side.

I can still love the 1970s originally the Standard Oil building now the ION Center. White Granite clad from originally white marble that had to be removed and replaced. Still more a simple white box. Still a awesome venue with its presentation of strength. I look forward to its skydeck and exterior elevator when it ever gets built. That was put off this year per the pandemic etc.

Big John (formally John Hancock) was odd when first built shooting up alone. Yet somehow Water Tower Place then shortly added next door.... gave it that combo that its armless look then lost. Yet WaterTower Place building is must White Granite I believe Clad and still works as a box giving CONTRAST with BIG JOHN.

All my Opinion and we all have them.....
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Old 12-12-2020, 11:51 AM
 
330 posts, read 131,716 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHyping View Post
The downplaying of the replacement downsized towers for the former Chicago Spire sight by Terracotta accents or claims of removed complete which I still found links that said it was not. Really changes little in the look it seems anyway. They are just as impressive.

When someone decries a downsize as some strictly Chicago thing and lessens Chicago's stature in Architecture if its is 900'+ vs 1100"+? They ARE PROMOTING SIZE MATTERS. Most Architecture buffs dislike the Podium concept with parking anyway. So to remove it was not detrimental to them and therefore the towers were shrunk.

Chicago maintains its mix of old and new well. Part of what gives it a edge and later 20th century had few fully booming periods with all the same styles one after another. You see that even more in Toronto with is fast building and booming core with highrises and skyscrapers and soooooo many the same color green-glass exteriors. Some new and proposed should hielp.
1. It's ironic that you say people are "downplaying" the replacement towers when that is literally what Related did but you aren't critical of them. Instead, you are critical of someone who wants better for thier city and wants corporate developers to live up to their promises to build developments worthy of Chicago's heritage.

2. I don't care what link you find that says terracotta is still being used. I provided you with Related's official proposal to the city. "Decoravtive metal accent panels,"...."glass and aluminum curtain wall."




3. The podiums being removed is not why the towers were shortened, it was becuase they were denied use of a hotel component in the tallest building. That shortened the towers because Related still opted for two towers rather than a consolidation that would increase the scale.

4. Any architecture enthuisiast would gladly take a podium at the base if that meant in return you get terracotta facades, an extra 300 feet of height, decorative crowns and the orginal set-back proportions of the first design. The forms and materials of the first design were superior. Those were masterpieces that were a perfect homage to Chicago's past and on-par with anything being built around the world.

5.
If you don't think "SIZE MATTERS" then imagine Vista without the tallest tower section. How much less impact would it have on the skyline or river canyon? How odd and stubby would its form be without the tallest portion? How much less notable, photographed and visited would it be? There are certain marquee locations that demand something visually appealing and a height that redifines its surroundings like Vista has. Wolf Point should have been another.

You only have so many properties that are absolutely perfect locations to build something completely unique and iconic to separate your cityscape from your peers. The river gateway was one of those opportunities. Why do you think New York is building all those super-talls overlooking Cental Park? Because that area is totally unique to Manhattan and gives you an urban landscape Dubai, Shang-Hai, London, Hong Kong, Paris or Chicago can't. Chicago's river canyon is completely unique to Chicago and provides an urban setting that no other city can.
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:38 PM
 
465 posts, read 291,495 times
Reputation: 459
Great thread through out, better than most on city-data.

Chicago is second to NY in skyscrapers, no doubt, but there is no one else close to Chicago.

I care about the size of our skyscrapers but also dissapointed in the designs we've had out recently as well as the political obstruction. The 78 an Lincoln Yards will only be shells of their proposed selves when finished, but still bigger developments than any non-NY city will see.
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