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Old 12-20-2020, 02:50 PM
 
1,054 posts, read 284,460 times
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Sure I understand nimbyism is a factor. Heck, we know it was for the latest Spire towers. I also remember others. My point earlier when I as usual... go into a long post and all over the place. That once a Tower has city approval, all permits necessary to build and it is a GO. Then it is UP TO THE INVESTORS, DEVELOPER, BUILDER etc.

If it stops after that? Do we blame the city? We might say it added extra months etc... and by then new issues arose like the economic outlooks one and one. Still as I noted. IT DOES TAKE A PERFECT STORM of events more positive then not..... to have these buildings start.

HYPER-DENSE? Really? Not Chicago's style to go that far. It had height-limits for a reason and that was sooooo long ago kind of what? Bad politics and regulations? Certainly prevented supertalls earlier. Still all that occurred helped make Chicago what it is. Far more I would like to have seen NEVER HAPPEN then these super-talls/mega-talls.

This thread still was to hype a bit the St Regis building (Vista) it became a negative future kind of thread for Chicago with its reputation to somehow dig itself up and out of whatever its thrown its way.

Old Chicago Main Post Office Twin Towers - So we really think we should have gotten this British developer financed tower in a second phase of 3 .... for the Old Post Office sight for a 120-story conjoined closely twin-tower behemoth. The SOLID PODIUMS LOOK AWFUL. guess Chicago lost a big one and terrible to loose any big-boys? Posted about this one before. The plan was approved on July 18, 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Ch...ce_Twin_Towers

Some were foreign investors from the spire to the above and of course Vista started by Chinese investment.

How about other examples of Cancelled Supertalls THAT WERE CITY APPROVED TO BUILD. So THEY STOPPED NOT FROM THE CITY....

Examples...

- 7 South Dearborn - the building would have been 1,567 feet with twin antennas pushing the height to exactly 2,000 feet. Of course today..... antennae DO NOT COUNT.

In September 1999, the Chicago City Council approved the project. Cancelled in 2000 due to lack of funding. Should we blame the city or nimbyism?

On the Tower..... In October 1999 , Donald Trump also offered to join European-American Realty in the project. They declined, so Trump began looking for other sites to invest in Chicago. Later, his efforts would culminate in the construction of Trump Tower Chicago, which used a design that borrowed much from 7 South Dearborn.

After being approved, Scott Toberman, CEO of European-American, faced difficulties in obtaining financing for the construction. In April 2000, after several failed financing attempts, the media companies backing the antenna aspect of the proposal backed out. European-American then defaulted on payment of a $22 million mortgage on the land, forcing Toberman to return the land deed to Banque Worms Capital Corp, a representative of his lender.



Still many were VISIONARY Towers and CONCEPTUAL towers. We have the proposals and renditions.... Still they were listed as just what it was called.

- Gateway Tower to replace the Spire. Never got past the Conceptual.... The plan a building 2,000 feet tall As of June 2016, the building is conceptual.

The Chicago World Trade Center - proposed in 1982, was to be a 2,500 ft. It was ultimately cancelled in 1991. IT IS CALLED A VISION in links I saw.....

https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/bui...rade-center/41

- The Illinois, envisioned by Frank Lloyd Wright in 1956, was to be a mile high 5280 ft skyscraper. CLEARLY LISTED AS VISIONARY. He saw it in his era as still POSSIBLE TO BUILD and in Grant Park yet .... Looked a lot like the SOM tallest in Dubai Burj Khalifa Tower.

- Miglin-Beitler Skyneedle - already pointed out ... the plans would falter due to the post-Gulf War market downturn and ultimately cancelled after Lee Miglin was murdered. Planned in 1988 and cancelled in 1992. Would have been 1,999 ft. Again, not the city's fault. I do not think it ever got to the point of city approval process?

*** SOME OTHER VISIONARY/CONCEPTUAL/GLORY TOWERS OF THE WORLD never built - and some that did have planning and cancelled some info above was found ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_structures
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Old 12-20-2020, 06:41 PM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,587,042 times
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Originally Posted by Robert9 View Post
Really sad how this city now has the mentallity of a small town instead of a big city. No wonder a New Yorker recently told me how they look down upon us more than ever and see us as the Mayberry of the American City's! And someone else laughed saying how Chicago used to look down upon others and now we are so tiny comparred to many places who have grown as we fall behind
The Mayberry of American cities? We are so tiny compared to other places? You might want a hobby.
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Old 12-20-2020, 07:03 PM
 
1,705 posts, read 469,040 times
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Originally Posted by Justabystander View Post
The Mayberry of American cities? We are so tiny compared to other places? You might want a hobby.
if you do not like it then take it up with the people who said these things instead of trying to insult me
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Old 12-20-2020, 07:50 PM
 
Location: sumter
11,228 posts, read 6,826,804 times
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Chicago is still a big city by anyone's standards. With nearly 2.7 million in the city and about 9 million in the metro, that's still pretty big, and 3rd here in the U.S. and 5th in North America. It most definitely have a big city skyline, it screams look at me, I'm big. Nothing in the region compares to it, and I wish a bright future the city and it's people.
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Old 12-20-2020, 10:30 PM
 
1,054 posts, read 284,460 times
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Default I understand some anger that ALL things offered/planned.Don't get built. Still I applaud what does too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWright View Post
Chicago aldermen and their zoning privilege has absolutely led to canceled plans before they ever had a fair chance to be voted on. NIMBY's in Chicago have become extremely prevelant as well and today you have community guidelines created by resident organizations that have a major say in everything that gets built. Developers have to appease these groups with sometimes dozens of public meetings. In some cases they are fighting over something being built blocks away from their building. An entire neighbnorhood should not be able to come out and stop progress like this for anything being built within its borders.

Even when a project isn't outright rejected for arbitrary reasons they push timelines back years and years by forcing redesigns to address NIMBY concerns. This also leads to changes in the look, function, height and density which scales everything back to more modest plans rather than being what they consider "overwhelming."

Draper and Kramer had an approval for a 400' tower at 61 E. Banks in the Gold Coast. A resident organization fought them to the Illinois Supreme Court where they won a decision to dictate what the developer could build. This set a terrible precedence and the blueprint now is to sue over anything that you don't like.

That Gold Coast associastion was led by a former Alderman that was president of the zoning commission. They had lawyers and architects in their ranks arguing against the project and spent almost a million fighting the developer for 10 years. The city took back its approval and only an 8 story low-rise was built on the site. They argued that a 40 story building "didn't fit the character of the neighborhood" and the historic mansions on Astor St. would be harmed.

Those homes are 3 blocks from the site that they were suing over where there's already a 40 story building next to the one they were suing to stop. All around the site there are high-rises of varying heights from various eras. This helped create a process where aldermen now defer to their donors for "community" input when in reality they are keeping Chicago from ever reaching its true potential.

Alderman Reilly's decision to not allow Related to include a hotel at 400 N.LSD forced a redesign process which took 2 years and by the time it was finally approved a pandemic came along and killed the chances of them being built. The original plan was to begin construction on both towers simultaneously in early 2019. If not for Reilly's pandering to the townhome community on North Water Street over hotel guests and traffic these towers might be almost topped out by now with the original designs in tact.

Symmetry Developers proposed a 725' tower at 740 N. Rush. Reilly said that there is too much traffic at that intersection and moved to have the buildings there landmarked to block any future proposals. That is a dictatorship. He denies the city more residents, increased tax dollars, jobs and desnity by doing this. He killed off a 45 story hotel proposed for the same site in 2014.

740 N. Rush This is only footsteps from One Chicago Square, with this building added that part of the skyline would have added 3 new peaks and the streets would have had so much more pedestrian activity/vibrancy.



1000M was scaled back from being a supertall because the Landmark Commission ruled that it "didn't respect the Michigan Ave. streetwall." So again 2 years passed for a redesign and when it broke ground the pandemeic put a halt to construction. Had it been allowed to move forward with the original design the city would have had an iconic landmark tower fronting Grant Park which would only increase our reputation and skyline. Instead they got in their own way and the years lost to these demands being met means a different market may arise by the time they have finally received approval which could make the project less feasible.

A 425' tower at 1130 N. State was rejected immediately by Alderman Hopkins for being "too tall" and "too dense." The neighbors complained that apartments would bring too many short term young residents to the neighborhood and too many deliveries would ruin traffic. Again the developers now have to spend years meeting demands to address bogus NIMBY concerns.

1130 N. State

Lincoln Yards had the zoning height lowered from 850' to 650'. They had a soccer stadium and entertainment district canceled from the proposal. They made them create more park space and after redesigns the project is much lower density and is only a fraction of the scale without the original amenities.

The Obama Library has been tied up in lawsuits for years. These delays have pushed back much needed stimulation to Woodlawn. The city is losing jobs, education, tourists, homes, tax dollars etc. over NIMBY's having absurd demands and wanting community agreements.

The Old Town Park development lost a 460' tower because the city increased affordable housing requirements so ONNI Development canceled the tallest building in the project and put all the affordable units in a 1970's era lowrise building that they would have demolished for the tower. With the increase it wasn't feasible to build the 4th tower.

The Lucas Museum was of course lost because a parking lot was saved to stop a world class institution from coming to Museum Campus. The lawsuits made George Lucas go to L.A. rather than spend years in court like Obama's Library has.

Polish Triangle in Wicker Park had a proposal for a 12 story building denied and replaced by 4 story apartment development, and a 16 story building at Wicker Park Connection. In both cases the alderman was pressured into denying the proposals over blue-line congestion and too much density.

Six-Corners in Portage Park has had a 10 story senior citizen building denied by the aldermen and he has stopped revitalization there for years.

All of these examples are just a few but there are many more of these insane practices that have become all too common in Chicago. We used to be pro-development but now we force developers to make their buildings blend in with their surroundings and not overshadow their neighbors. Look at all the plataeus created in the skyline from the last decade.

Chicago has a broken system where too many zoning laws and archaic practices have created a city where everyone feels entitled to say what gets built where and how it will look.
We have way too much land zoned single-family and in 90% of cases a multi-family building can't be built above 4 stories in our neighborhoods unless it is T.O.D which shouldn't have restrictions but aldermen have the power to restrict whatever, whenever.

So yes, Chicago should be above and beyond all of this given our history of architecture and engineering. We have had the opportunity to have much more investment, density, height and scale than what we have. These practices have kept our city in check like never before. Its not contrcution costs, Chicago's GDP, jobs, violence, weather or whatever excuse is given. Developers have seen much more potential in Chicago than what is reflected.
It is our residents and aldermen that have no wish of us ever becoming a hyper-dense global mega-city, i.e. New York 2.0... They want to keep their streets as quaint as possible and are highly organized to do so.

We keep small town values and govern every piece of land under a microscope to scrutinize every detail until it meets these unimposing, non-offesnive standards. Skyscrapers downtown are one thing but where the real loss is at is in not allowing mid and high-rise buildings in our outer neighborhoods. This would not only enhance the streetscapes and scale but it would grow the populations which are all down majorly from their historic highs. A 12 story building in Chicago should not cause pure outrage, lawsuits, redesigns, shortening, delays etc. but this is sadly exactly where we are at. In the right location even a 4 story building causes that same reaction.
I will just say that that Tower I remember seeing shown.... and I think we can be pretty sure that is that round-topped tower was built? That One Chicago probably would not be...... I think One Chicago is more Chicago looking.... I don't dislike the one that got cancelled. Still a GLASS Tower that has the TOP be a different slant and appearance given to it. Does seem Shinier then anything around it. I still applaud One Chicago under Construction during this pandemic year. I still think it will be a great addition to the skyline.

Lincoln Yards or the 78 are developments ... is over DECADES. 20-30 year even till complete and we know how things can change no matter what is forced today. Look at LAKESHORE EAST. It too what like 40-yrs already till finally the last tower might get built. Sooooo many architectural style changes over them decades and do you think they planned the towers decades down the road? No it was a process of demand and investors and still worked over time. These projects will be totally different over years of what actually gets built.

On the Gold Coast.... I do not worry about that neighborhood for the most part. It still gets towers and I wish they had the Preservationist and some nimby's in the 60s 70s when sooooo many awesome mansions were destroyed for high-rise boxes..... sorry.

I would say on the Lucas Museum.... I myself thought it would be great for Chicago. Still I HATED the design for the Chicago one. Lucas had different designs for Chi, LA and SF. LA ultimately won and I like its design much better then Chicago's was. We do know it was because Lucas wife is a Chicagoan that Chicago was even considered and his wife swayed him. Really, what ties did Lucas have with Chicago and his movie making to otherwise even give Chicago a look???? Still I agree it is sad we lost it. Just can't blame city government here.

I think the abstract TENT look was not Chicago at all and WORST of the 3 designs for each city. Out of place by the museum Campus of classic architecture and of course Soldier Field was next door. Its Columns left intact also was classic architecture and look how many DEMONIZED the new stadium inside the exterior saying it looked like a flying saucer landed inside LOL. Yet this Lucas one looked like what? On the stadium.... I just think it was disappointing that it is shy of the minimum to ever hold a Superbowl if it had a chance.

Still I think the design of the Lucas Museum played still a big roll in the fight against it. I HONESTLY DO. Also LUCAS PLAYED STUBBORN. He was offered a spot by the Convention Center I believe and others and TURNED THEM DOWN. So that is that. ALSO IT WAS NOT THE CITY'S FAULT HERE RIGHT? They just could not defeat the lawsuit by the - Friends of the Lakefront...or whatever they were called who won. Again, I think with a BETTER DESIGN it had a much better chance especially not so strange and I did not like it myself.

My oh my
.... ole 6-corners... I remember it well. Shopped in the ole Sears that was there and OMG it held on till 2018.... last in Chicago to go. My Great Aunt worked years there and retired from there with a pension even I believe..... before employees would end up loosing theirs as other firms in the 80s. Long time ago now.

I looked-up info on this - 10-story Senior Center/grocery store sight across the street and read got delays in 2019 with outgoing Alderman and zoning wrangling and some nimbyism ... but this link from JUNE 2020. SAYS IT GOT APPROVED THIS YEAR??? Seems all gave in eventually.

From the link.
- After years of delay made longer by a political changing of the guard, the “eyesore” of a hole in Chicago’s once-thriving Six Corners shopping district may finally be filled.
- The Chicago City Council on Wednesday approved “The Point at Six Corners” a day after the Zoning Committee endorsed the $130 million project. In June 2020.
The Point at Six Corners wins City Council approval.
- The 10-story complex at Milwaukee and Cicero avenues and Irving Park Road includes a 258-unit residential building for senior citizens, 215 parking spaces and a 45,000 square-foot retail complex anchored by an Aldi.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-ha...l-portage-park

Did something happens SINCE??? Of course this Pandemic can delay things again in itself. I just found nothing saying it finally was cancelled???

On Chicago having zoning for neighborhoods preventing high-rises by zoning. STILL I UNDERSTAND IT and AGREE..... for preserving these great neighborhoods with still great housing. Now for main corridors/streets like of course Milwaukee Av that has gotten them and some other.... yes more then not. Still OLD CHICAGO does not need to be RE-URBANIED for NYC DENSITY (still plenty of single homes the Boroughs of NYC where we think everything is wall to wall tenement-styles.... it is not. Zoning downtown is where the South Loop and West Loop have the sky is the limit. Does not mean everything will get built. More might there of course....

I once gave in a thread how TORONTO PROTECTS ITS SINGLE-HOME NEIGHBORHOODS WITH ZONING and gave links. That city has had a steady ride without problems of American cities since the 1960s. It is as our Sunbelt booming cities. Yet it still struggles to get a supertall and many came and went there too. Its problem for decades was mediocre - blue-green glass towers that look alike. Again, this JUST CHICAGO is VERY UNTRUE cancelled towers and zoning restrictions.

Some Urban planners and staunch Urban lovers..... ABHOR PODIUM TOWERS.... seems you and others have no problem as long as its LONG SLEEK TALL BABY AND BIGGER THE BETTER.... maybe I am just too old to think Bigger is ALWAYS BETTER .... and any scale back is OMG @#$#^%^% Well, it is common in many cities.

Most cities though still crave what Chicago got..... like I said. In the Philly forum they applaud virtually anything new since so many have loooooon delay and cancellations and buildings tore down only to get nothing new there. Also the bigger complaint is mediocre high-rises when they also want something grand and less glassy/boxy. A Houston applauds any box built.... No ZONING and Just have enough parking.... good to go. Did they get their Supertalls? Got a couple close though. No zoning has developers no incentive to do street-level attributes and that is that.


On the Obama Library. I would not worry on that one. Seems even Obama is not pushing it or even saying OK we can put it elsewhere where REAL neighborhood renewal it might do not in a city park and seems gentrification was hitting the location anyway..... Why does it even need to be in Jackson Park only?

I was hoping Chicago even got the Olympics. Signs were it was a front-runner. Still I read when the Intl. Olympic Committee visited the city... though wined and dined. Weather was AWFUL the whole visit foggy/rainy. Skyline and rest could not shine and Rio offering ALL New venues and first Olympics in South American + payoffs Chicago must have failed in ..... well we know the outcome.

No one said anything on the TRIBUNE EAST TOWER? I for one am not crazy about the sleek design right next to the original Tribune, then we do have that grey box nearby anyway, but the plaza is fine and glad it is there to showcase the ole Tribune better. I actually would have preferred and One Bennet looking tower. Mock Art-deco look.....for the Tribune East. Still I would want the Tribune East Tower built .... just somewhere else downtown.

Last edited by NoHyping; 12-20-2020 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Evanston, Lake Forest, and Wrigleyville, Illinois
2,486 posts, read 1,578,007 times
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Originally Posted by NoHyping View Post
On the Obama Library. I would not worry on that one. Seems even Obama is not pushing it or even saying OK we can put it elsewhere where REAL neighborhood renewal it might do not in a city park and seems gentrification was hitting the location anyway..... Why does it even need to be in Jackson Park only?
I will never sympathize with the library-aligned groups who are demanding prime public parkland while there is so much bombed-out and desolate land available in this city and the Chicagoland area that is begging for investment and redevelopment. All of this is being requested for the benefit of what is ultimately a private organization worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Can't the University of Chicago acquire or provide some land as SMU did for the Bush Center? This is just a bonkers, hypocritical, and unethical proposal.
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:40 PM
 
12,635 posts, read 14,560,850 times
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Originally Posted by Robert9 View Post
if you do not like it then take it up with the people who said these things instead of trying to insult me
Lol, what a stupid ****ing comment. Most american cities are laughable compared to Chicago in terms of size.
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:45 PM
 
1,705 posts, read 469,040 times
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Lol, what a stupid ****ing comment. Most american cities are laughable compared to Chicago in terms of size.
Again cry to those who made the remarks as crying to me is going to get you nowhere.
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Old 12-22-2020, 01:17 PM
 
12,635 posts, read 14,560,850 times
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Originally Posted by Robert9 View Post
Again cry to those who made the remarks as crying to me is going to get you nowhere.
No crying here. Just pointing out how stupid the comment is.
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Old 12-22-2020, 04:43 PM
 
1,705 posts, read 469,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
No crying here. Just pointing out how stupid the comment is.
And again you need to cry to the people that have made those comments and others like it as telling me every minute is not going to change a thing. Its how they feel so clearly they do not see it as stupid.

Last edited by Robert9; 12-22-2020 at 05:00 PM..
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